First look at turbo 2.0L for next Type R (and presumably Si)

Vtak Groceries

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more low end response can be had from the 2.4L block ... rumours are about this with 340+ hp and AWD
Seems weird for Honda to go that route. They just rented the Nurburg to dial in their 2016 CTR with the 306hp.... Unless we are seeing the 2017 CTR prototype doing anything AWD related on the nurburg (Drift?) I doubt it man. This is Honda, they are super conservative..... Always.
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limitedslip

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the new rear subframe gives a clue, it is ready for a diff and space for the axle-shaft .. the bottom control arm is also angled to the rear to create the space .. the wait is ever more exciting to see if they go conservative !! :dunno:
 

CTR

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the new rear subframe gives a clue, it is ready for a diff and space for the axle-shaft .. the bottom control arm is also angled to the rear to create the space .. the wait is ever more exciting to see if they go conservative !! :dunno:
Where do you see photos of the new subframe and control arms? I'm thinking it's more likely they will add electric motors to the rear wheels for AWD if they go that route...
 

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btw ... the 2.0t makes use of a cooled exhaust manifold .. not sure the finned tube is chanelled but i assume it does not get soaked to that extent
more low end response can be had from the 2.4L block ... rumours are about this with 340+ hp and AWD
the new rear subframe gives a clue, it is ready for a diff and space for the axle-shaft .. the bottom control arm is also angled to the rear to create the space .. the wait is ever more exciting to see if they go conservative !! :dunno:
Perhaps you mistook the intake manifold for the exhaust manifold? Easy to do if you're used to the exhaust ports pointing toward the firewall on a regular K motor. There's really no reason for the exhaust manifold to be cooled since it would not only be an exercise in futility but could possibly yield slower turbo response. Under load the CHRA is largely driven off the pressure delta across the turbine wheel so if you're cooling the upstream side, you risk lowering the delta.

And Honda has previously made clear that the new Earth Dream engine form factors as being 1.0L, 1.5L, and 2.0L. I don't believe the older 2.4L would be employed in favor of more fuel-efficient ED solutions. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if somebody eventually manages to stick a 2.4L bottom end onto a 2.0T, but I don't believe that this would be a factory configuration.

As far as the rumors of AWD go, can you cite a source for this? All spy photos of the next CTR, though heavily camouflaged, have clearly depicted a FWD platform.
 

Design

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The EM is water cooled according to the press release, for both the 1.5 and 2.0. I suspect it cools just enough to keep things a little more manageable. Honda claims about a 100* reduction here (jump to 2:20):


I think limitedslip is on to something. It's possible they could be testing both variants while corporate keeps a pulse on the market's acceptance of the new powerplants. That said, I do think FWD is more in line with Honda's design philosophy.
 


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The EM is water cooled according to the press release, for both the 1.5 and 2.0. I suspect it cools just enough to keep things a little more manageable. Honda claims about a 100* reduction here (jump to 2:20):


I think limitedslip is on to something. It's possible they could be testing both variants while corporate keeps a pulse on the market's acceptance of the new powerplants. That said, I do think FWD is more in line with Honda's design philosophy.
Ah, ok. I had forgotten these newer motors have integrated manifolds and they're hanging the turbo basically right off of the head. I can understand wanting a little extra thermal insurance around that area.
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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I wouldn't be mad if it was AWD. Prefer a lighter car but grip is a good thing too.
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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By grip, I mean off the line grip because honestly over 45, 300 hp still isn't enough to cause serious traction issues.
 

s2kdriver80

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I hope the 2.0 turbo used in the next Type R cranks out at least 350hp to compete with the Ford and other cars in this niche. And since Honda likes to take about 10,000 years to bump power output (think previous NSX and S2000), might as well try to get as much as we can at the beginning of the cycle. If they're concerned about how to put all that FWD power to the ground, I'm sure they can come up with some technical wizardry (e.g. limit power at low rpm, etc). Honda, the king of high output, is handily outdone by Mercedes with their 2.0 turbo making 376hp. I also hope they don't soften up the suspension for the US market to cater to "less hardcore" Americans.
 
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Vtak Groceries

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I hope the 2.0 turbo used in the next Type R cranks out at least 350hp to compete with the Ford and other cars in this niche. And since Honda likes to take about 10,000 years to bump power output (think previous NSX and S2000), might as well try to get as much as we can at the beginning of the cycle. If they're concerned about how to put all that FWD power to the ground, I'm sure they can come up with some technical wizardry (e.g. limit power at low rpm, etc). Honda, the king of high output, is handily outdone by Mercedes with their 2.0 turbo making 376hp. I also hope they don't soften up the suspension for the US market to cater to "less hardcore" Americans.

Current day Honda is no where near close to being the king of high output. They had NOTHING lol, until this new 305HP 2.0t came out. But still that is nothing revolutionary as Mutsibushi and Subaru have been making that kind of power since the 90s from their 2.0t engines.

As far as the CLA45 AMG 2.0T goes. I dont think Honda will ever touch it power wise.
 


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By grip, I mean off the line grip because honestly over 45, 300 hp still isn't enough to cause serious traction issues.
I can confirm this, as I have no problems putting down power at 45mph at around the 400-420whp level. No DRs or slicks, just a Quaife, FullRace traction bars and decent tires.
 

firsthonda

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So the new Hyundai sonata sport is going to use a 1.6 liter 200 hp Si fighter. Honda Needs To Dominate With The Si And Make A Volume seller
 

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Perhaps you mistook the intake manifold for the exhaust manifold? Easy to do if you're used to the exhaust ports pointing toward the firewall on a regular K motor. There's really no reason for the exhaust manifold to be cooled since it would not only be an exercise in futility but could possibly yield slower turbo response. Under load the CHRA is largely driven off the pressure delta across the turbine wheel so if you're cooling the upstream side, you risk lowering the delta.

And Honda has previously made clear that the new Earth Dream engine form factors as being 1.0L, 1.5L, and 2.0L. I don't believe the older 2.4L would be employed in favor of more fuel-efficient ED solutions. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if somebody eventually manages to stick a 2.4L bottom end onto a 2.0T, but I don't believe that this would be a factory configuration.

As far as the rumors of AWD go, can you cite a source for this? All spy photos of the next CTR, though heavily camouflaged, have clearly depicted a FWD platform.
Taken from SAE(Society of Automotive Engineers) article that quotes Honda top brass and a Kelly Blue Book analyst saying this ...

[[“The last model didn’t resonate with the target audience,” noted Karl Brauer, Senior Analyst for Kelley Blue Book. “They’ve done everything they should have done to address their problems, with improved styling, a turbocharged engine, and multiple body styles."

Another key factor, he said, will be the arrival in North America of the racy Civic Type R, an ultimate performance model built on the five-door hatchback version from England. For the first time that car will come to the U.S., providing a halo car beyond the Civic Si coupe. That will let the Civic contend with rarefied competitors like the Subaru WRX STI, Ford Focus RS and Volkswagen Golf R for enthusiasts’ mind-share and dollars.]]

>> note the STI / RS / R comments ... maybe something here !!
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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After seeing the recent comparison on www.TopGear.com, I'm starting to think we need AWD... Then again, the drivers on TopGear are probably good but not professional.
 

limitedslip

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looking carefully at the still shots of the purported 17 hatchback doing it's testing around the 'Ring ... the stance and set of the car under acceleration IMO looks awfully 'flat' and 'neutral' .. compared to say a FWD or RWD only chassis .. where there should be discernible Front-End lift out of corners and acceleration !!?
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