Confused about the engine output comparison between 9th and 10th Gen Si

[Mick the Quick]

Okay, I am going to confess, I am a bit confused about this issue.

From what I have seen from various dynos shown on Honda forums and YouTube, the 10th Gen Si seems to get about 200-205 hp and 200-210 ft-lbs. of torque at the wheels.

On the other hand, the 9th Gen Si (which I own, btw) seems to measure on dynos about 155-170 hp and 130-150 ft-lbs. of torque at the wheels (as compared to the SAE rated 205 hp and 174 ft-lbs. of torque at the crank).

So, why is everyone acting like the 10th Gen has not made a substantial power improvement over the 9th Gen Si? Apparently, in 2017, Honda decided to claim the figures at the wheels, whereas they used to measure at the crank per the SAE standard. This would explain their proud claim that the 2017 Si is the most powerful Si ever (though they could be just talking about the torque . . . . but torque is not technically what casual consumers would consider to be "power"; they usually associate horsepower with that term . . .. but whatevs).

Assuming a standard 15% power train loss (could vary), the 2017 Si could have been rated 240hp and 225ft-lbs. under the SAE guidelines, no?

Can someone explain this for me? Thank you.

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[serif]

Because people take manufacturers' published figures as gospel and nothing else will convince them otherwise. Honda says it's 205hp, and the 9th gen was 205hp, so the 10th gen is the same.

Not bearing in mind that other (German) manufacturers have been severely underrating their turbo engines for years and Honda seems to be following suit.

 

[17siturb0]

A lot of people got butt hurt because they had much higher expectations of what the car was supposed to be like. I for one am not butt hurt, I’m happy with the new platform. You make over 200hp and torque at the wheels with this new one, and if you want to keep the car bone stock and add a custom tune you are looking at 210-220hp and 260-270 torque at the wheels! With just a tune! That’s insane when doing a comparison. Now a lot of people had expectations that this new civic si was supposed to get the detuned type r 2.0 engine. With power figures around 230-250hp and around the same torque or higher. People didn’t take into consideration of cost. That would have put it in a different price range, and would change the class of the car. It wouldn’t have the nice MPG’s it has now if they used the other motor. They had goals with the Si and I think they were on par with those goals. It’s a economy sport compact. It still has the fun character to it, gets good gas mileage, and is a perfect daily driver for most consumers, and still has a 6 speed only, also now you get heated seats like damn what else could you ask for?. I don’t see how one can be unhappy with what you get for the money. It’s a good value.

 

[MikeTT]

I was one of those people that wanted 220-230hp out of the new civic si, I didn't expect they would put a de-tuned Type-R engine in it but would've loved to have seen it. Now that the new accord has come out it makes a lot more sense why they didn't put the de-tuned R engine in the SI, the top of the line Accord gets that. We all know that Honda would never let the si have the same engine as the top of the line accord....

 

[d1zguy]

I was one of those people that wanted 220-230hp out of the new civic si, I didn't expect they would put a de-tuned Type-R engine in it but would've loved to have seen it. Now that the new accord has come out it makes a lot more sense why they didn't put the de-tuned R engine in the SI, the top of the line Accord gets that. We all know that Honda would never let the si have the same engine as the top of the line accord....

You do get that amount of HP at the crank thou

The Ext makes 205 hp at the crank

 

[davemarco]

You do get that amount of HP at the crank thou

The Ext makes 205 hp at the crank

My thoughts exactly. Even if you take the PRL Dyno figures, their pre-bolt on Dyno figure is shown to be 185 whp, which is right around 218-220 hp at the crank. Having come from a stock 5th gen Prelude (rated at around the same hp as the 10th gen by Honda), I can tell you that the new platform is WAY more powerful in practice.

 

[jakdotdot]

Because people don't race dyno's they race cars. Different dyno's read differently and peak numbers only tell you so much.

When it comes down to it, the 8th, 9th, and 10th gen SI's all run fairly similar 1/4 mile times. 15 second 1/4 mile times were slow then and still slow now.

Don't get me wrong, the 10th Gen SI is probably the best all around SI, but I would still call it somewhat disappointing from a drive train/power standpoint.

 

[Shankmeyster]

It's all about torque this time around, not the HP numbers.

 

[davemarco]

Because people don't race dyno's they race cars. Different dyno's read differently and peak numbers only tell you so much.

When it comes down to it, the 8th, 9th, and 10th gen SI's all run fairly similar 1/4 mile times. 15 second 1/4 mile times were slow then and still slow now.

Don't get me wrong, the 10th Gen SI is probably the best all around SI, but I would still call it somewhat disappointing from a drive train/power standpoint.

Have you driven one? Personally, I found that going back to a high revving H22 was difficult after.

 

[9civic10]

I think people care more about the performance over how and tq numbers .

10th gen really isn't faster

 

[PolishedLX]

I think people care more about the performance over how and tq numbers .

10th gen really isn't faster

That's right, cars are evaluated based on performance, not hp and tq.

 

[T_A_H]

Performs same/better

Responds great to mods

Handles better

Has more creature comforts

Gets better MPGs


But can't see how it's an improvement

 

[d1zguy]

I never even considered getting a previous gen SI; I thought they were cheap, horrible and terrible lawnmowers to drive (yes I drove a few and could not comprehend the lack of torque around town such a lame weak engine in practice and not much performance on the whole package) I figured if I wanted a high strung engine I wanted the best. So I got a s2000 instead; The tight gearing and overall package made it not feel like a retarded tin cat around town.

Now having the 2017 SI with gobs of torque is interesting to me. not so much a high strung none-sports car "si"

 

[T_A_H]

I never even considered getting an SI. I figured if I wanted a high strung engine I wanted the best. So I got a s2000 instead.

Now having the 2017 SI with gobs of torque is interesting to me. not so much a high strung none-sports car "si"

It's the best daily I've ever driven

 

[davemarco]

Performs same/better

Responds great to mods

Handles better

Has more creature comforts

Gets better MPGs


But can't see how it's an improvement

Wasn't the entire 9th gen line panned for the cheap interiors and terrible chassis?

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