takemorepills
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2015
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- Location
- Seattle
- Vehicle(s)
- 1987 Prelude Si
- Thread starter
- #1
Been on here a while, long time fan of older Hondas. The new CivicX definitely is an appealing car to me, but the long drawn out silence on the Si, plus the threat of an Si equipped with a 1.5T has seriously got me worried, I am now going a different direction. The GTI has reeled me in, and I am in the process of purchasing one (lease, in case I decide I don't like it, I can get an Si later)
I could call this a Si vs. GTI, but honestly the new CivicX with 1.5T spreads good performance across many trims, much like the Golfs have TSI (1.8T) and GTI (2.0T), I feel blurring the line a little is OK, and I'll try and compare the GTI's strengths fairly to the 1.5T and the sense of what the SI has been and may be.
Price:
GTI minimum entry price: 2dr S 6MT about $24.8K, prices go WAY up to $39K, at which point it doesn't make sense to compare the upper strata GTIs to any CivicX currently offered. A 4dr SE GTI with DSG ($29.7K) is about as far as I would go in comparing to a Touring CivicX
CivicX minimum EX-T about $23.2K, Touring $26.5K.
It seems CivicX has the benefit of price? Not really, VW is hurting right now, CivicX is new and VW incentives are steep due to "DieselGate". I can get a GTI S DSG with lighting package for $23.3K right now, which includes VW's current $1500 non-VW owner bonus. I'll say "tie" for now, hard to compare these 2 on price and mission directly.
Advantage: debatable
But, going forward I will compare GTI S DSG with lighting package to a Civic EX-T...
Style:
GTI is blocky, conservative and Teutonic. Not too far different from my 87 Prelude's blockiness and other "Legendary" old school Honda's like the old hatchbacks and Preludes. In my mind a "win", for me personally. Probably a design that will age very well because it adheres to basics and not trends.
Also helps that GTIs are available as 5 and 3 door hatchbacks. This is huge to me, as of course, I miss the days Honda offered 3 door Civic and CRX. The CivicX is almost certainly not going to gift us with a 3 door variant.
CivicX is very curvy, swoopy, has a bunch of added in body lines. In my mind, it is the best looking take on this way of designing cars. The CivicX looks great for a new language style, I really like it. But I personally prefer more restraint like the older Hondas had. But still, I call this one a win too just because Honda did what they had to do to be current and they are killing everyone else in this type of design language. 5 door hatch on the way is a very strong plus.
Advantage: personal preference.
Reliability:
GTI is a VW, and VW has a bad reputation. The Mk7 GTI on MQB platform, however, is proving to be far better than all VW's prior to it. This car MAY reach a "good" rating in reliability in due time. I will be a guinea pig. In the year and a half this car has been out, there has been a relative silence on enthusiast forums about issues. I am somewhat shocked. But...
CivicX carries Honda's well earned reputation. Wouldn't surprise me if the X continues on.
Advantage: CivicX
Quality:
GTI Mk7 has a slight downturn in perceived quality, but it is still regarded as extremely high for a compact car. No widespread reports of rattles. Soft materials nearly everywhere, good quality of even base materials.
CivicX is a huge leap in quality. People have referred to it as almost "German-like". Good for Honda. However, I have heard that the cloth seat material is a bit off-putting to quite a few members here.
Advantage: GTI, because it is a continuation of German perceived "quality" and CivicX just recently entered that perception also.
Standard equipment (GTI S DSG with lighting package vs. EX-T)
GTI: Here the GTI probably ekes out a "win" with it's AFS bi-xenon headlights that turn with your steering wheel, XDS+ vehicle dynamics system, red LED accented door panels, seat style, back seat style. Aside from electronic park brake, the "S" trim GTI is similar to EX-T. The fact that VW offers lighting package as a separate item kills the EX-T and it's fixed option structure. Even the Touring LED headlights can't compete with AFS Bi-Xenons. VW MIB2 infotainment system has slightly smaller screen than Honda's Android based system, and is also having bugs (but not as bad as Civic). The MIB2 system wins for me because it has a CD player, 2 SD card slots and USB along with Android Auto and Apple. The MIB2 has more hardware, and CivicX has more expansion due to Android.
CivicX holds it's own, has electronic parking brake and Android based infotainment. However, I strongly dislike the infotainmet being married to the HVAC, the current bugginess of it is not forgivable in my mind.
Advantage: debatable, but...GTI
Performance:
GTI, well it's gonna kill the CivicX here. Way under rated 2.0 is rated at 210/258, but dyno's at the wheel 225/260, which is crazy. ALL dyno'ed GTIs over achieve on the dyno. AND, the DSG is not a penalty box at all, either 6MT or DSG GTI can be heavily tuned. XDS+, legendary GTI suspension tuning, strong brakes. No contest. DSG is way better for performance than CVT any day. And the GTI DSG is a great trans. Also, 2.0T can be had with 6MT in any trim.
CivicX performance out of the box is commendable for the 1.5T, however severely limited in potential by 1.5T being small and stuck with CVT. Upcoming Si won't stand a chance unless it gets it's own 2.0T and is as surprising as the 1.5T. CivicX brakes are very good now, no issues there.
Advantage: GTI, GTI, GTI
MPGs:
GTI: not bad for what the car is capable of.
CivicX: obviously better MPGs.
Advantage: CivicX
Value:
GTI: In base S, leather SE or with the $1500 Performance Package on the S or SE, the GTI is an excellent value WHEN you take advantage of VW's current troubles. These cars can be had for $800 under invoice plus a $1500 bonus. Getting the Autobahn package and driver assist tech pushes the GTI into $38K territory. I am no fan of driver assist, if you are a, CivicX Touring would be a better deal. If you care about performance the GTI in lower trims is a better deal. I must note that even base GTIs are well equipped with LED fogs, infotainment system, etc.
CivicX: In light of the lower level GTIs, I don't think the EX-T is currently the best deal. But a Touring certainly is a great deal to those who value drivers aids over performance.
Advantage: GTI S beats EX-T.
So, that's my opinions right there. Can't wait to hear what others think. I have spent a lot of time mulling these choices, and as a Honda nut I still chose GTI.
I could call this a Si vs. GTI, but honestly the new CivicX with 1.5T spreads good performance across many trims, much like the Golfs have TSI (1.8T) and GTI (2.0T), I feel blurring the line a little is OK, and I'll try and compare the GTI's strengths fairly to the 1.5T and the sense of what the SI has been and may be.
Price:
GTI minimum entry price: 2dr S 6MT about $24.8K, prices go WAY up to $39K, at which point it doesn't make sense to compare the upper strata GTIs to any CivicX currently offered. A 4dr SE GTI with DSG ($29.7K) is about as far as I would go in comparing to a Touring CivicX
CivicX minimum EX-T about $23.2K, Touring $26.5K.
It seems CivicX has the benefit of price? Not really, VW is hurting right now, CivicX is new and VW incentives are steep due to "DieselGate". I can get a GTI S DSG with lighting package for $23.3K right now, which includes VW's current $1500 non-VW owner bonus. I'll say "tie" for now, hard to compare these 2 on price and mission directly.
Advantage: debatable
But, going forward I will compare GTI S DSG with lighting package to a Civic EX-T...
Style:
GTI is blocky, conservative and Teutonic. Not too far different from my 87 Prelude's blockiness and other "Legendary" old school Honda's like the old hatchbacks and Preludes. In my mind a "win", for me personally. Probably a design that will age very well because it adheres to basics and not trends.
Also helps that GTIs are available as 5 and 3 door hatchbacks. This is huge to me, as of course, I miss the days Honda offered 3 door Civic and CRX. The CivicX is almost certainly not going to gift us with a 3 door variant.
CivicX is very curvy, swoopy, has a bunch of added in body lines. In my mind, it is the best looking take on this way of designing cars. The CivicX looks great for a new language style, I really like it. But I personally prefer more restraint like the older Hondas had. But still, I call this one a win too just because Honda did what they had to do to be current and they are killing everyone else in this type of design language. 5 door hatch on the way is a very strong plus.
Advantage: personal preference.
Reliability:
GTI is a VW, and VW has a bad reputation. The Mk7 GTI on MQB platform, however, is proving to be far better than all VW's prior to it. This car MAY reach a "good" rating in reliability in due time. I will be a guinea pig. In the year and a half this car has been out, there has been a relative silence on enthusiast forums about issues. I am somewhat shocked. But...
CivicX carries Honda's well earned reputation. Wouldn't surprise me if the X continues on.
Advantage: CivicX
Quality:
GTI Mk7 has a slight downturn in perceived quality, but it is still regarded as extremely high for a compact car. No widespread reports of rattles. Soft materials nearly everywhere, good quality of even base materials.
CivicX is a huge leap in quality. People have referred to it as almost "German-like". Good for Honda. However, I have heard that the cloth seat material is a bit off-putting to quite a few members here.
Advantage: GTI, because it is a continuation of German perceived "quality" and CivicX just recently entered that perception also.
Standard equipment (GTI S DSG with lighting package vs. EX-T)
GTI: Here the GTI probably ekes out a "win" with it's AFS bi-xenon headlights that turn with your steering wheel, XDS+ vehicle dynamics system, red LED accented door panels, seat style, back seat style. Aside from electronic park brake, the "S" trim GTI is similar to EX-T. The fact that VW offers lighting package as a separate item kills the EX-T and it's fixed option structure. Even the Touring LED headlights can't compete with AFS Bi-Xenons. VW MIB2 infotainment system has slightly smaller screen than Honda's Android based system, and is also having bugs (but not as bad as Civic). The MIB2 system wins for me because it has a CD player, 2 SD card slots and USB along with Android Auto and Apple. The MIB2 has more hardware, and CivicX has more expansion due to Android.
CivicX holds it's own, has electronic parking brake and Android based infotainment. However, I strongly dislike the infotainmet being married to the HVAC, the current bugginess of it is not forgivable in my mind.
Advantage: debatable, but...GTI
Performance:
GTI, well it's gonna kill the CivicX here. Way under rated 2.0 is rated at 210/258, but dyno's at the wheel 225/260, which is crazy. ALL dyno'ed GTIs over achieve on the dyno. AND, the DSG is not a penalty box at all, either 6MT or DSG GTI can be heavily tuned. XDS+, legendary GTI suspension tuning, strong brakes. No contest. DSG is way better for performance than CVT any day. And the GTI DSG is a great trans. Also, 2.0T can be had with 6MT in any trim.
CivicX performance out of the box is commendable for the 1.5T, however severely limited in potential by 1.5T being small and stuck with CVT. Upcoming Si won't stand a chance unless it gets it's own 2.0T and is as surprising as the 1.5T. CivicX brakes are very good now, no issues there.
Advantage: GTI, GTI, GTI
MPGs:
GTI: not bad for what the car is capable of.
CivicX: obviously better MPGs.
Advantage: CivicX
Value:
GTI: In base S, leather SE or with the $1500 Performance Package on the S or SE, the GTI is an excellent value WHEN you take advantage of VW's current troubles. These cars can be had for $800 under invoice plus a $1500 bonus. Getting the Autobahn package and driver assist tech pushes the GTI into $38K territory. I am no fan of driver assist, if you are a, CivicX Touring would be a better deal. If you care about performance the GTI in lower trims is a better deal. I must note that even base GTIs are well equipped with LED fogs, infotainment system, etc.
CivicX: In light of the lower level GTIs, I don't think the EX-T is currently the best deal. But a Touring certainly is a great deal to those who value drivers aids over performance.
Advantage: GTI S beats EX-T.
So, that's my opinions right there. Can't wait to hear what others think. I have spent a lot of time mulling these choices, and as a Honda nut I still chose GTI.
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