Civic Type R After-market Wheel Guide

Toshagi

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Thank you Anthony, quite helpful.
I ordered the Alleggerita HLT 18x8.5 ET40, with 235/45/18 Pirelli all seasons; thought 40 would be ok, and didn't see better options in my price range on Tire Rack, don't wanna deal with other vendors. Now I'm having second thoughts, though Tire Rack and my mechanic who's an enthusiast and friend assure me I'll be ok...
This is just for the winter, BTW, I live in the Philly / NYC area.
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Anthony FK8

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If you push out toward the fender and add more camber it will change the angle on the steering axis for a strut based car.

This is a quote from Wikipedia and I assume they are smarter than I am but "The inclination of the steering axis is measured as the angle between the steering axis and the centerline of the wheel. This means that if the camberangle is adjustable within the pivot points the scrub radius can be changed, this alters the width and offset of the tires on a vehicle." Hope that helps more

I understand living in NYC I'm uhhh upstate lol so we get most of the NY snow lol but yeah drive conservatively and you shouldn't have issues. You're likely to break traction and understeer before torque steer because snow traction blows no matter what you have comparing to dry traction on a summer
 

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At 4:25 you can see that the scrub radius is almost zero. How much you will feel the torque steer if you push the will out few milimeters depends on how sensitive you are and what cars you had before. I had a tuned Saab 9-3 Aero (like Viggen) and that car was wild. It was the torque steer hero so...I don't think I would have problems whit a little bit of torque steer in the CTR :)
 

baldheadracing

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Hi all, does anyone know what the original scrub radius is on our cars? Debating whether +40 offset on a 18x8.5 would cause too much torque steer, kickback, all that good stuff...
I saw the posts by baldheadracer and that he's not happy with the +45, but still would like to know how much I'm adding to the scrub radius with a +40 offset, i.e. what is the original scr. radius.
Thank you all.
Original scrub radius is, I believe, 0 mm, which is achieved with ET60 wheels. (Engineering Explained just released a video on the Type R and he shows pretty much a 0mm scrub radius on the tire. ETA: linked in the post above) Thus, with ET45 I am at 15mm positive scrub radius. The wheels that were under consideration when I previously commented were ET25, which would be 35mm positive scrub, which is a huge amount.

Also, I wouldn't say that I wasn't happy - I'd say that I was surprised at the impact. Early reports were saying "no torque steer," but in hindsight I think that those reports would be better stated as "no torque steer when driving in a straight line in dry conditions."

With the stock wheels, I can get noticeable torque steer by doing a full-throttle pass on a two-lane road. With ET45 wheels, I get more torque steer performing the same manoever. It isn't a big deal; just hold onto the wheel tighter and - more importantly - realize the same logic applies in conditions whenever the traction available on one side of the car is different from the traction available on the other side. That happens quite often in snowy/icy conditions without any driver input, so apply greater vigilance (and lower speeds).

(FWIW, I am not driving my Type R in snow.)
 
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Toshagi

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Thanks guys, this is very informative and helpful. Sounds like I should be fine, and in any case the Alleggerita HLT wheels weigh 18 pounds compared to the OEM 29, which is a separate advantage. I don't expect to push the car much over the winter, and will switch back to the OEM wheels next spring; at least until aftermarket comes up with a better / lighter solution.
And I have to say: I LOVE this car. (and I don't get how Mike Sutton at C&D can call the styling "Obnoxiously juvenile" :) )
 


Toshagi

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I'm not able to give you an accurate measurement in terms of number but Honda released a diagram where they discuss the differences between the base and the CTR. you can see the steering axis or king pin line comes very very close to the centerline is (zer0) that's is where you have zero scrub. Absolute zero scrub radius is "bad" it creates squirm. But assuming you do your math of 8.5in width with an et60 you can find the centerline of your rim which will also line with the center of the tire (obvious I know but still) I believe the CTR is near zero toward the negative side. Idk I'm no engineer but basically you want the hub offset to remain similar to the width of the oem wheel as a ratio. Like. I believe 9.5 with +47 is absolutely perfect but don't quote it. So 9.5 on a 45 should be good. I have ordered a set of Ce28SL 18x9.5 +44 when I get the road ready next season I can update if you wanna wait that long. If not. Pull out a ruler and start measuring. There should be an obvious pivot point on the tire if you record a rotation of it. I'm sure there is a video on YouTube about the CTR and its scrub radius. Hope that helped I know it was lengthy
Hi Anthony, I checked out 18 x 9.5 ET 47 - looks quite a way out: http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.ph...2=40&wheel_size=18&wheel_width=9-5&offset2=47
 

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Okay hopefully I can explain this a bit better with images that I've doodled over.
Honda Civic 10th gen Civic Type R After-market Wheel Guide IMG_7752.PNG
Here is our type R Dual Axis strut front suspension. As you can see with the lines drawn Green being the tires center line, Red being our steering axis or king pin inclination and orange representing your traditional steering axis on a McStrut Car. The green and red don't intersect at absolute Zero (it's a doodle for reference I haven't measured the suspension, I have strong reason to believe it is very very close to zero because if felt the car squirm under braking hard in a straight line, but it could be a compliance bushing thing too or RTA off topic but still). What we are all worried about is offset yes. So offset is going to change the back spacing of a wheel. And the tire is event distrubuted along the section width. As I stated earlier adding width and keeping offset can change the characteristic of its driving and effect the handling along with the geometry. The issue we will all run into is not so much fender clearance but back space. Eventually if we kept the OEM ratio the same. For every inch we add in section width we would have to subtract a % of that in offset. So. 20x8.5 et 60 to a 20x9.5 et57. Which would then hit your strut and if it didn't you would likely rub your tire. And if you didn't rub your tire or to avoid it you would likely have to stretch a tire. Which ultimately decreases contact patch and performance in terms of lateral grip, stopping, and traction in straightline more effective contact patch higher mu level. More grip to turn, stop and go basically. So in an attempt to remedy this many wheel manufactures and people trying to set up the car for max performance are saying stay near OEM offset. Which is why I said a 47 would be great because 47 is closer to 60 than say 35 (again redundant because we know how to count but just stating for those who are concerned) moving on. Since we cannot force the wheel further under the fender toward the strut it's good to keep the back spacing close or that clearance to allow for sidewall flex under load, Etc. 5mm is half a centimeter, and like 2/10th of an inch? Therefore additional section width must be pushed out toward the fender. But in doing so you can go from a 245/30/20 to something like a 275 (with enough camber) or safely a 265. By doing that you've effective added 20mm roughly (I don't know your alignment choice or tire choice) and added 25.4mm or 1 inch in wheel width a difference of +/- 5 mm is again like nothing. Although if you use your imagination you can indeed push that green line further left and see the change in scrub radius. But hey you don't end up like the picture below
Honda Civic 10th gen Civic Type R After-market Wheel Guide IMG_7753.PNG
which will translate more torque steer than our suspension set up. Mind you I feel the biggest question to answer is when we as drivers feel it. While under power or torque is being applied. This occurs in the Type R at corner entry and exit. Where at exit you feel the car continuing to turn in the slightest. The steering wheel lightens up a bit. But also. As you turn the wheel it tends to want to rotate back to center (thank you caster) the Type R has a very high amount of caster. This effects steering efforts (gives you that heavy feeling) by creating a torque to pull the wheels to center again. But as you can see with the current photo above (depicting a tradition mcstrut) the red line shows a positive scrub. And as a result torque steer like crazy. The fix is wider wheels and camber. If you push the wheel to the left you'll see the green line, line up with the red. Reducing scrub radius. The same logic can be applied to the CTR. I apologize if this was lengthy but I tried answer as many questions as possible. Any further questions on scrub radius an zero vs. positive vs. negative can be answered in this video and I encourage you to watch the steering inclination videos too!
 
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Need some help...

HRE FF01
19x9 +25
+40

255/35/19 295/35/19

Not good at understanding the wheel setup. These came off a caddy so I know the tires were setup for rear wheel. Any advice helps!
 

fmoua916

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Need some help...

HRE FF01
19x9 +25
+40

255/35/19 295/35/19

Not good at understanding the wheel setup. These came off a caddy so I know the tires were setup for rear wheel. Any advice helps!
That’s stagger no good
 
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Need some help...

HRE FF01
19x9 +25
+40

255/35/19 295/35/19

Not good at understanding the wheel setup. These came off a caddy so I know the tires were setup for rear wheel. Any advice helps!
You could run a reverse stagger with the more aggressive wheels up front, but even so it's not very ideal. You could make it work if you wanted to but personally I would not run it.
 


Toshagi

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Wheels: Alleggerita HLT 18x8.5 Et40 Anthracite, 18.8 lb (compared to 29 lb OEM wheels)

Tires: 235/45R-18 PIRELLI P ZERO ALL SEASON PLUS ORIGINAL COMPOUND XL (don't ask...tirerack online matching tool steers towards 235s and doesn't offer a single 245/40 option, and I didn't call...realized my mistake later, but am still happy with this choice; it's a winter setup and I'm planning to switch back to OEMs next spring)

First impressions: Pushed the car a little in straight and several really twisty roads here - no torque steer felt. Handling feels amazing, can't feel real difference despite the 20mm additional offset. Overall acceleration feels just a notch less aggressive than with OEM wheels/tires, but really very close, which surprised me a lot!

Question: Tried to check alignment, but my trusted technician didn't have the specs; went to Honda - they took the car in, only to find out the alignment software for the Type R was released yesterday, and they don't know if it will be installed by the end of this week. I'm planning to go to a last track day for the year with the new setup this Sunday (Nov 19). Honda tech and my mechanic are telling me I should be ok, though my tech did say it's better to check toe isn't off. Honda guy says no way it can be off. I have ~1,100 miles on the car. What do you guys think, is alignment necessary? Of course I'd rather be safe than sorry; thanks.

I'm attaching a few pictures of the wheels/tires for everyone's benefit.

Honda Civic 10th gen Civic Type R After-market Wheel Guide IMG_1154 (1).JPG


Honda Civic 10th gen Civic Type R After-market Wheel Guide IMG_1152.JPG


Honda Civic 10th gen Civic Type R After-market Wheel Guide IMG_1151.JPG


Honda Civic 10th gen Civic Type R After-market Wheel Guide IMG_1153.JPG
 

Anthony FK8

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Not a chance the alignment would be crazy off or outside the realm of oem toe alignment. You would have to bend a control arm. And the front end is very robust. You should be fine. Great write up
 

GenXCTR

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Wheels: Alleggerita HLT 18x8.5 Et40 Anthracite, 18.8 lb (compared to 29 lb OEM wheels)

Tires: 235/45R-18 PIRELLI P ZERO ALL SEASON PLUS ORIGINAL COMPOUND XL (don't ask...tirerack online matching tool steers towards 235s and doesn't offer a single 245/40 option, and I didn't call...realized my mistake later, but am still happy with this choice; it's a winter setup and I'm planning to switch back to OEMs next spring)

First impressions: Pushed the car a little in straight and several really twisty roads here - no torque steer felt. Handling feels amazing, can't feel real difference despite the 20mm additional offset. Overall acceleration feels just a notch less aggressive than with OEM wheels/tires, but really very close, which surprised me a lot!

Question: Tried to check alignment, but my trusted technician didn't have the specs; went to Honda - they took the car in, only to find out the alignment software for the Type R was released yesterday, and they don't know if it will be installed by the end of this week. I'm planning to go to a last track day for the year with the new setup this Sunday (Nov 19). Honda tech and my mechanic are telling me I should be ok, though my tech did say it's better to check toe isn't off. Honda guy says no way it can be off. I have ~1,100 miles on the car. What do you guys think, is alignment necessary? Of course I'd rather be safe than sorry; thanks.

I'm attaching a few pictures of the wheels/tires for everyone's benefit.

IMG_1154 (1).JPG


IMG_1152.JPG


IMG_1151.JPG


IMG_1153.JPG
Your wheels looks great! Nice choice. Also, very nice write up. I going with a 35 offset (25mm swing), so it's nice to hear you didn't feel too much difference.

In regards to the the alignment, I would say there is no way you need one, but if Honda got the software installed as of today and you have time to take it back for peace of mind, it may not hurt. If it's not ready though, I would say you're probably fine. I spoke with a Honda mechanic/specialist yesterday and I let him know I'm putting on my winter setup this weekend (I'll put up pics), so I asked if he thought I needed an alignment with a 25mm swing and he said nah. However, I will return in a bit anyway for other reasons, so when I'm there I'll get it checked for S's & G's.

If you decide to go this weekend good luck!
 

Toshagi

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Your wheels looks great! Nice choice. Also, very nice write up. I going with a 35 offset (25mm swing), so it's nice to hear you didn't feel too much difference.

In regards to the the alignment, I would say there is no way you need one, but if Honda got the software installed as of today and you have time to take it back for peace of mind, it may not hurt. If it's not ready though, I would say you're probably fine. I spoke with a Honda mechanic/specialist yesterday and I let him know I'm putting on my winter setup this weekend (I'll put up pics), so I asked if he thought I needed an alignment with a 25mm swing and he said nah. However, I will return in a bit anyway for other reasons, so when I'm there I'll get it checked for S's & G's.

If you decide to go this weekend good luck!
Thanks, I'm planning on going. Honda haven't called me yet, I feel like it may not happen before Sunday and then we have Thanksgiving after, so who knows :) I'm just trying to be extra careful, as I've had techs say to me before "no, you don't need alignment" when I was changing tires (not wheels), only to have the tires "cupped" following that...although it is true that car didn't have only 1,000 miles on it and may have been due for alignment anyway.
Good luck to everyone who's changing wheels/tires this season, there are some great posts and resources on this thread.
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