Civic Si - Let's do some math on that 192 lb-ft rating

[fg2kid]

So it appears that Honda has confirmed the torque output of the Si in a newsletter email. The email states it will make 192 lb-ft of torque. Sounds like a healthy number to me, but everyone wants to know horsepower!

Luckily we can calculate horsepower with this formula: Torque * RPM / 5252 = Horsepower.

As an example, the Civic Hatchback LX makes 167 lb-ft at 5500 RPM.

167 * 5500 / 5252 = 174.8 HP. Spot on!

Now let's assume the Si makes 192 lb-ft at the same 5500 RPM.

192 * 5500 / 5252 = 201 HP.

That's not baaaad, but I think the Si engine will rev a little higher than the L15B7 that is in standard Civics. Here are a few more calculations with peak torque occurring at higher RPMs.

192 * 6000 / 5252 = 219 HP. I believe this is roughly what we'll see out of the Si.
192 * 6500 / 5252 = 237 HP. This would probably be pushing things a little too far.
192 * 7000 / 5252 = 256 HP. I highly doubt this will happen.

It seems as if we're going to end up with a 220 HP Si, just as people have been predicting for some time now. Thoughts? Comments?

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[Metfanant]

So it appears that Honda has confirmed the torque output of the Si in a newsletter email. The email states it will make 192 lb-ft of torque. Sounds like a healthy number to me, but everyone wants to know horsepower!

Luckily we can calculate horsepower with this formula: Torque * RPM / 5252 = Horsepower.

As an example, the Civic Hatchback LX makes 167 lb-ft at 5500 RPM.

167 * 5500 / 5252 = 174.8 HP. Spot on!

Now let's assume the Si makes 192 lb-ft at the same 5500 RPM.

192 * 5500 / 5252 = 201 HP.

That's not baaaad, but I think the Si engine will rev a little higher than the L15B7 that is in standard Civics. Here are a few more calculations with peak torque occurring at higher RPMs.

192 * 6000 / 5252 = 219 HP. I believe this is roughly what we'll see out of the Si.
192 * 6500 / 5252 = 237 HP. This would probably be pushing things a little too far.
192 * 7000 / 5252 = 256 HP. I highly doubt this will happen.

It seems as if we're going to end up with a 220 HP Si, just as people have been predicting for some time now. Thoughts? Comments?

IIRC...Europe gets a 1.5t motor that produces 201bhp and 260nm of torque...

260nm = 191.77ft-lbs...

Your first calculation was probably SPOT ON...

 

[fg2kid]

IIRC...Europe gets a 1.5t motor that produces 201bhp and 260nm of torque...

260nm = 191.77ft-lbs...

Your first calculation was probably SPOT ON...

That would be a little disappointing.

 

[Metfanant]

That would be a little disappointing.

I agree wholeheartedly...now, torque is your friend, and always remember in the famous words "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races."

So this car WILL in all likelihood outrun the 205hp Si's assuming the weight is similar...but I was REALLY hoping for a torque figure north of 200...And a hp figure north of 220...

I also think it's LAZY AS HELL for Honda to possibly be simply transplanting a run of the mill EU spec engine into the Si...

I know the Type-R needs to be clearly the top dog...But did they really need to keep the Si 100+ hp below it?...Ugh...

 

[fg2kid]

I agree wholeheartedly...now, torque is your friend, and always remember in the famous words "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races."

So this car WILL in all likelihood outrun the 205hp Si's assuming the weight is similar...but I was REALLY hoping for a torque figure north of 200...And a hp figure north of 220...

I also think it's LAZY AS HELL for Honda to possibly be simply transplanting a run of the mill EU spec engine into the Si...

As long as the engine at least has an upgraded turbo or something other than just a better tune, I'll be happy. Otherwise yes, Honda is LAZY AS HELL.

 

[styxrogan]

this car is DOA!

 

[Vtak Groceries]

IIRC...Europe gets a 1.5t motor that produces 201bhp and 260nm of torque...

260nm = 191.77ft-lbs...

Your first calculation was probably SPOT ON...

Wont happen...

That engine was discussed for the Si about 1.5 years ago on this forum.

The Si engine will be slightly re-worked from that Euro engine. Expect 206-215hp.

This is the most powerful Si ever. It must be over 205hp in order to claim that title.

I still remember a year from now everyone thought the Si was coming with a 2.0T and I was flamed for even suggesting the Si come with a 1.5T lol.... I know my Honda. Ive been tuning Hondas for 10 years! Honda always takes the conservative approach.

 

[bikejog]

This is the most powerful Si ever. It must be over 205hp in order to claim that title.

As much as I hope you're right, but I just can't find any statement from Honda where it said it's the most powerful SI ever. The statements that were made at the LA unveiling was "New more powerful 1.5T engine" and "Fastest Civic SI we've ever done". More powerful 1.5T doesn't necessarily mean most powerful ever.

 

[dmitri]

I just can't find any statement from Honda where it said it's the most powerful SI ever.

• 2017 Civic Si will be fastest, most powerful Si yet

http://www.hondanews.com/channels/c...otype-completes-10th-generation-civic-line-up

That said - this was discussed here before and some people mentioned the possibility of Honda including the (dramatically increased) torque numbers into their meaning of "powerful".

 

[Metfanant]

Wont happen...

That engine was discussed for the Si about 1.5 years ago on this forum.

The Si engine will be slightly re-worked from that Euro engine. Expect 206-215hp.

This is the most powerful Si ever. It must be over 205hp in order to claim that title.

I still remember a year from now everyone thought the Si was coming with a 2.0T and I was flamed for even suggesting the Si come with a 1.5T lol.... I know my Honda. Ive been tuning Hondas for 10 years! Honda always takes the conservative approach.

They can very easily use the torque number to still claim "most powerful" I do however hope for 210 or more...But im thinking 206 could be the number...Which is laughable

 

[17siturb0]

I still think it will have 204-205 hp. I was right about the torque. I estimated it before anyone else. You don't need to have 220+ for it to sell good. It's going to be fun regardless.

 

[thaseint]

I still think it will have 204-205 hp. I was right about the torque. I estimated it before anyone else. You don't need to have 220+ for it to sell good. It's going to be fun regardless.

Maybe but for the price when compared to the competition I'm not so sure. I mean if we're expecting 205 hp 195ft.lbs...that's basically FiST territory. A car that costs $5k less and largely praised by reviewers. The FoST, GTI, WRX will be a better buy hands down if someone is wanting to spend $26-27k and something they can get more bang for buck. Yeah I mean it's a Honda but if someone wants a CTR but doesn't want to pay ADM but is open to the idea of a less powerful trim I think a lot of people may jump ship...even more people since the Si is 6MT only. This is the category that myself and I'm sure others will fall into.

Not saying I want a CVT or DCT option but a consumer cross shopping cars in the Si class probably arnet going to want a 1.5T making so little power so that only leaves the people that want something sporty but don't want to deal with manual or Honda loyalists. I'm sure people will still buy them and it'll be a fun little car but I feel it's going to be pretty mediocre when priced among its competitors.

 

[kseriesparts]

I have said this all along. our inside guy said 205 WHP and works at the Ohio plant.

Reason asked. "Honda wants that 230k mileage lasting engine"

He told us it's the same 1.5 with a larger cam and a larger turbo.. Sounded legit to us.

 

[CIVICSPORT]

Maybe but for the price when compared to the competition I'm not so sure. I mean if we're expecting 205 hp 195ft.lbs...that's basically FiST territory. A car that costs $5k less and largely praised by reviewers. The FoST, GTI, WRX will be a better buy hands down if someone is wanting to spend $26-27k and something they can get more bang for buck. Yeah I mean it's a Honda but if someone wants a CTR but doesn't want to pay ADM but is open to the idea of a less powerful trim I think a lot of people may jump ship...even more people since the Si is 6MT only. This is the category that myself and I'm sure others will fall into.

Not saying I want a CVT or DCT option but a consumer cross shopping cars in the Si class probably arnet going to want a 1.5T making so little power so that only leaves the people that want something sporty but don't want to deal with manual or Honda loyalists. I'm sure people will still buy them and it'll be a fun little car but I feel it's going to be pretty mediocre when priced among its competitors.

Yep this is like a "Lite" edition Si versus direct market competition... with the Focus ST at 252hp (and set to jump to 270hp next gen), the GTI at 220hp, (set to jump to 242hp next gen) its really going to come down to the actual driving experience.

I'm kinda gunning for the Type R at this point. Price will be a big influencer too.

 

[fg2kid]

Yep this is like a "Lite" edition Si versus direct market competition... with the Focus ST at 252hp (and set to jump to 270hp next gen), the GTI at 220hp, (set to jump to 242hp next gen) its really going to come down to the actual driving experience.

I'm kinda gunning for the Type R at this point. Price will be a big influencer too.

The Si has always been underpowered compared to its competitors. That has never stopped it from getting great reviews from the car critics and selling pretty well.

Honda won't let us down with the driving experience - that's the point of the Si.

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