Civic owner's guide updated to include Si

[zroger73]

Read the fine print. It says *or*. I bet 9 out of 10 times they will take the *or* option. Plus 1) google tire puncture sealant and you will find many cons. 2) you're on your own after 3yr/36K miles.

When was the SI ever about sportier "appearance"? Before this SI, it had much bigger engine than the standard Civic. It was marketed as the performance Civic.

Well no there're no better performing cars that are as economical than this SI. But it's like saying there're there're no better performing cars as economical as the Civic. There's no free lunch. You want performance, then the "economic" has to suffer. I think the GTI, Focus ST, Fiesta ST, WRX are all much better performing and fun cars and are just as reliable and economical enough.

Everything we know so far: same engine as CRV, only slight HP and torque increase over standard Civic, same transmission and shifter (which owners are complaining as meh...) as the standard Civic, 205HP/192lb-ft, all points to crappy fun factor. Yeah it has LSD. But if you need the LSD on the street, then I think you need to check into a mental hospital because you're endangering everybody on the road. Yeah it has adaptive dampers. But it's only 205/192. How many BRZ/86 owners are happy with the power their cars are putting down? 0.000001%? Lol... We all know, "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". The quote must have been invented by Honda Civic owners.

FLAT TIRES

I agree that you'll almost certainly get a tow if a repair is unsuccessful or unable to be performed, but the statement "roadside assistance doesn't do tire repairs" is false according to Honda.

"So, should an owner suffer a lost key or their Honda run out of fuel, get a flat tire, require a jump start or need to be winched or towed, Honda Roadside Assistance will dispatch a service vehicle to perform one or more of these necessary services:

• Assist the owner in unlocking the vehicle
• Deliver fuel
• Change a flat tire with the Honda vehicle's spare
• Assist with use of the Tire Repair Kit (TRK)
• Jump a battery
• Winch the vehicle
• Arrange to transport the vehicle to the nearest Honda dealership."

http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7780-en

SPORTINESS

The Si gets red "Si" badging. Red badges are sporty, no? It gets a spoiler which is unnecessary for the primary intended use of the vehicle - driving at legal speeds on public roadways. Spoilers are sporty, no? It gets bigger, fake vents front and rear. Vents are sporty, no? It gets a black grill instead of a chrome grill. A black grill is sportier than a chrome grill, no? It gets a different wheel design that sets it apart from other Civics. The accessory/optional wheels, in particular, are sporty, no? The red stitching in the interior is completely non-functional. But, it's sporty, no? The center-mounted exhaust outlet is unnecessary, but it is intended to look sporty, no? The aluminum pedals - not sporty? I rest my case.

THE COMPETITION

To say a GTI is as reliable as an Si is laughable. A Ford? That's closer to being within the realm of possibility if you happened to compare a Ford "made on a Wednesday" to a Honda "made on a Monday or Friday". I'll agree that Subaru as a brand is comparable to Honda in terms of reliability. None of those you mentioned are as efficient and economical as the Si, but most sporty car and truck buyers don't expect Prius-like fuel economy.

While the 2017 Civic Si isn't as exclusive compared to the other Civic trims as it once was (more specifically, the power difference is now much narrower), Honda have priced it reasonably and offered us the Type R for those buyers who feel the Si is inadequate for their desires. For the majority of buyers who want a comfortable, efficient, and reliable daily driver with a bit of sportiness thrown in (can we say, "Sport injected"?), the Si continues to be tough to beat. If the Si doesn't meet a person's needs or wants, thankfully there are many more vehicles that will (possibly including the Type R). Other companies will be glad to take your money as well.

I don't work for Honda. I don't invest in Honda. I'm free to spend my money wherever I choose, but "as for me and my house", we will choose an Si.

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[bikejog]

FLAT TIRES

• Change a flat tire with the Honda vehicle's spare
• Assist with use of the Tire Repair Kit (TRK)

"Tire Repair Kit" == Tire Sealant Gunk. If you're happy with them injecting gunk into the inside of your tire, then so be it. Otherwise, you're looking at a tow and remember that towing at night will do no good if you have a flat tire. But you probably don't even have the choice to tow or use the "repair" kit. So mind as well skip the call and just inject gunk into your tire when you have a flat 'cause it's so easy to do. Actually, a better option would probably to get one of them tire patch/plug kits from Walmart or Amazon (around $5 ~ $10) and if you can see where the nail is, either plug it yourself or pray that roadside assistance will help you (doubtful) plug it.

SPORTINESS The Si gets red "Si" badging. Red badges are sporty, no? I rest my case.

You're right. The SI Badging alone nets -0.5 seconds 0-60.

THE COMPETITION
To say a GTI is as reliable as an Si is laughable. A Ford? That's closer to being within the realm of possibility if you happened to compare a Ford "made on a Wednesday" to a Honda "made on a Monday or Friday". I'll agree that Subaru as a brand is comparable to Honda in terms of reliability. None of those you mentioned are as efficient and economical as the Si, but most sporty car and truck buyers don't expect Prius-like fuel economy.

While the 2017 Civic Si isn't as exclusive compared to the other Civic trims as it once was (more specifically, the power difference is now much narrower), Honda have priced it reasonably and offered us the Type R for those buyers who feel the Si is inadequate for their desires. For the majority of buyers who want a comfortable, efficient, and reliable daily driver with a bit of sportiness thrown in (can we say, "Sport injected"?), the Si continues to be tough to beat. If the Si doesn't meet a person's needs or wants, thankfully there are many more vehicles that will (possibly including the Type R). Other companies will be glad to take your money as well.

No doubt the SI will have its audiences. After all, they sell lots of Civics and small fraction of would be Civic buyers will pick the SI. I think the Type-R will go the way of the S2000: gets cancelled after a few years. I mean it's a $40K niche car with no roof, big ass HP FWD, and ok mpg. At that price, you can get a 370Z and some real car made in Deutschland. For $10K less, you can get a WRX which will probably spank the CTR on the street. Same way the miata, which is $10K less, beat the S2000 (not in performance, but the Miata is still around).

 

[zroger73]

"Tire Repair Kit" == Tire Sealant Gunk. If you're happy with them injecting gunk into the inside of your tire, then so be it. Otherwise, you're looking at a tow and remember that towing at night will do no good if you have a flat tire. But you probably don't even have the choice to tow or use the "repair" kit. So mind as well skip the call and just inject gunk into your tire when you have a flat 'cause it's so easy to do. Actually, a better option would probably to get one of them tire patch/plug kits from Walmart or Amazon (around $5 ~ $10) and if you can see where the nail is, either plug it yourself or pray that roadside assistance will help you (doubtful) plug it.

No doubt the SI will have its audiences. After all, they sell lots of Civics and small fraction of would be Civic buyers will pick the SI. I think the Type-R will go the way of the S2000: gets cancelled after a few years. I mean it's a $40K niche car with no roof, big ass HP FWD, and ok mpg. At that price, you can get a 370Z and some real car made in Deutschland. For $10K less, you can get a WRX which will probably spank the CTR on the street. Same way the miata, which is $10K less, beat the S2000 (not in performance, but the Miata is still around).

I never said I supported the use of tire sealant over a spare. As a matter of fact, I'm not a fan - the minimal cost and weight savings are not worth the inconvenience. EXCEPTION: This stuff is very handy in lawn tractor tires (and other low-speed applications such as dollies, wheel barrows, etc.). For years, I dealt with almost constant air loss and flat repair (due mostly to thorns) until I injected tire sealant in all four tires.

If/when I have a flat in a vehicle not equipped with a spare tire, I'll do the following:

1) If the leak is slow whether it's day or night, I'll re-inflate it without using the tire sealant then have the tire properly repaired as soon as possible.

2) If the leak is fast and it's day, I'll utilize roadside assistance to get a free tow to the dealer and have the tire repaired. If the roadside assistance has expired, I'll let my insurance company pay for the tow.

3) If the leak is fast and it's night, I'll attempt to utilize the tire repair kit. If that's unsuccessful, I'll have it towed.

In my personal experience, the vast majority of flats are due to slow leaks caused by nails or screws. Re-inflating the tire buys enough time to drive to a tire repair shop as soon as convenient. I can't remember the last time I actually had a spare on the ground. If none of these options are acceptable, I suggest buying a spare tire and keeping it in the trunk. A new spare won't be dirty. If that's an issue, there are oodles of spare tire covers available. If you're stranded in the middle of nowhere, a dirty tire will be the least of your worries (and this statement comes from someone who is OCD about cleanliness).

***

You can't base the future of the Type R on the history of the S2000 - they are two completely different vehicles. The S2000 was a two-seat, RWD convertible with little room for people or cargo. The Type R is 5-passenger, FWD, fixed-roof hatchback that is classified by the EPA as a "large car" (same as an Impala, Taurus, Continental, and other full-size cars). The S2000 was a unique vehicle with a limited market whereas the Type R is simply a trim level of the existing Civic hatchback. The platform for the Type R already existed, so it's easy for Honda to make simply by dropping in a different powertrain and suspension and adding some additional trim pieces. It can utilize most of the same tooling as the non-Type R hatcback. The S2000 required unique tooling since there was and is no other Honda like it.

Honda would do just fine without the Type R or the Si. Those are anything but high-profit, mass-market vehicles. They exist mainly to draw attention to Honda and create a feeling of sportiness in Honda's DNA. Most people are gullible and manufactures know that. Honda knows that people will hear about, see, or read about the Type R and gain the attention of buyers who might not have otherwise considered a Honda. Psychology plays a huge role in the decisions manufacturers make. If a 15 year-old from a family of Ford buyers is wooed after seeing the Type R video at Nurburgring on YouTube, he might not be able to afford or convince his parents to buy him one when he gets his first car, but if he "settles" for a regular Civic instead, Honda still made a sale.

Look at the Ridgeline - it was a hobby and experiment back when it was introduced in 2005. It failed to sell as well as Honda hoped, so they discontinued it. A small, but loyal group of 1st generation Ridgeline owners cried loudly enough to convince Honda to bring it back for a 2nd generation. There was no budget for an all-new design, so Honda took the existing Pilot SUV, removed the third row seats, and put an open bed on it that shares the unique trunk and tailgate with the 1st generation (not that that's a bad thing). However, Honda does see some importance in the Ridgeline. It keeps a handful of pickup buyers in the Honda family and further brings attention to the Honda brand as a capable and diverse manufacturer. The Ridgeline has never been without more than its fair share of mockery and criticism from "real" truck buyers, but even bad publicity is often better than no publicity. Truth be told, Honda would still succeed if they sold only the Civic , Accord, and CR-V - each in EX trim only.

 

[bikejog]

1) If the leak ...
2) If the leak ...
3) If the leak ...

Let me simplify your algorithm

if not exists(MURPHYS_LAW)
....repair_cost = DOLLAR_20
....repair_time = MINUTES_30
else
....repair_cost = DOLLAR_GREATER_THAN_50
....repair_time = HOURS_GREATER_THAN_4
Now, do you feel lucky punk?

The market for the S2000 is there because the Miata is still being made. It's just Honda couldn't compete on price. The Type-R is not an impala. The Accord is an Impala. the Type-R is DOA just like this SI, the CRZ before it, and the S2000 before that.

 

[zroger73]

Looking at the parts diagram, it appears the Civic Si has a much more shallow "spare tire pan" than the regular Civics. Presumably this is to make room for the center-mounted mufflers of the Si rather than the outer mufflers on the standard Civic models. Looks like there may not be enough room for a spare tire.

According to the Honda Canada website, the Canadian Si comes with a T125/70 R17 98M temporary compact spare, so there must be room for one. The Maxxis part number is TP10240000 which also fits the 2010-2012 Buick Regal and LaCrosse.

 

[dmitri]

According to the Honda Canada website, the Canadian Si comes with a T125/70 R17 98M temporary compact spare, so there must be room for one. The Maxxis part number is TP10240000 which also fits the 2010-2012 Buick Regal and LaCrosse.

OMG I so hope you're right... Please let it be an available option! Pleeeeeeeease!!

 

[dmitri]

Guys, looks like it will be an option after all!!

Just saw this in the owner's manual (page 572, at http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/OM/AH/ATBA1717OM/enu/ATBA1717OM.pdf)

(There's no way to interpret that text any other way, right...?)

 

[zroger73]

The facts as we know them so far...

1. The Honda US website says the US Si comes with a tire repair kit.
2. The Honda Canada website says the Canadian Si comes with a spare tire.
3. US parts lists show the spare tire well is different (shallower) on the Si vs. non-Si.
4. The owner's manual depicts a spare tire both for both Si and non-Si models.
5. The owner's manual covers both US and Canadian models.

From this, we can deduce that it is possible to fit a spare tire in the US Si.

 

[dmitri]

Here's the last nail in the coffin for ya:

Hell yeah!!

I was really beginning to psych myself up for actually carrying a spare in the trunk... PHEW!

 

[zroger73]

Great find! Now, we just need to find out how much the optional spare tire/wrench/handle/jack/foam is. I'm guessing $150-200.

Also, don't forget that the compact spare should not be used on the front due to the Si's limited-slip differential. Actually, it's a good practice to never put a compact spare on the front of any vehicle since the front tires are responsible for steering and most of the braking which are more important than acceleration.

 

[Leetcivx]

Nice find. I would rather change a tire than have to wait for roadside assistance if the tire is beyond repair.

 

[dmitri]

don't forget that the compact spare should not be used on the front due to the Si's limited-slip differential.

Wow that's very good to know; thanks. I had no idea it would make a difference/could be dangerous...


P.S. Dammit I can't remove this attachment image (below)!! I've got this

[ATTACH=full]37399[/ATTACH]

appearing at the bottom every time I go to edit this message, no matter WHAT I do. Tried logging off, clearing cache, etc. -- it just pops back in on each edit. Please ignore...

(Hate to bother @Administrator with this -- but if you have a spare minute and feeling particularly benevolent , please take that out if possible. TIA)

 

[Inertiaman70]

Wow that's very good to know; thanks. I had no idea it would make a difference/could be dangerous...


P.S. Dammit I can't remove this attachment image (below)!! I've got this

[ATTACH=full]37399[/ATTACH]

appearing at the bottom every time I go to edit this message, no matter WHAT I do. Tried logging off, clearing cache, etc. -- it just pops back in on each edit. Please ignore...

(Hate to bother @Administrator with this -- but if you have a spare minute and feeling particularly benevolent , please take that out if possible. TIA)

Lol. I had the same issue the other day with an image I added accidentally. Once it was in there, I couldn't get it out.

 

[Inertiaman70]

Great find! Now, we just need to find out how much the optional spare tire/wrench/handle/jack/foam is. I'm guessing $150-200.

Also, don't forget that the compact spare should not be used on the front due to the Si's limited-slip differential. Actually, it's a good practice to never put a compact spare on the front of any vehicle since the front tires are responsible for steering and most of the braking which are more important than acceleration.

http://hondapartsnetwork.com/assemb...c-Sedan-SI-6-Speed-Manual-Temporary-Wheel-Kit

Interesting that the Kit Assembly as a single part number is not available, but the individual parts are.

 

[Inertiaman70]

Oof, plus $166 in shipping costs, which just about negates their discounted prices. Might as well get them from your local dealer.

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