Car and Driver 2017 Lightning Lap - Civic Si matches MK7 GTI PP

dmitri

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Another thing to also maybe consider is that those cars are driven by people, whose age, weight, mood, how much sleep they had or how drunk they got the night before would probably have at least some effect on those numbers.
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das borgen

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So improved times by 1.5s to 2s?
I said on the Full Course.... LL used the Grand Course which is a combination of the Full Course and Patriot Course.

Honda Civic 10th gen Car and Driver 2017 Lightning Lap - Civic Si matches MK7 GTI PP 2000px-Virginia_International_Raceway_-_Grand_West_Course.sv



How much the repave is worth on the grand course , I never knew
 

Mick the Quick

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I've had my Si coupe for four days, and I'm in love with it. Admittedly it's not going to be visiting a track anytime soon, but my work commute has been a hoot. The standard all-season tires are adequate, and hey, they do carry a "W" speed rating.
So, what is your opinion of Si versus GTI Sport (I see that you have both)? I am curious because I am considering them both. Thanks.
 

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LL is also driven by amateur drivers on different days, so who the heck knows what the times represent.
 


SoichiroSan

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So, what is your opinion of Si versus GTI Sport (I see that you have both)? I am curious because I am considering them both. Thanks.
The GTI Sport is one cool customer. Built like a bank vault, drives and feels like it costs thousands more. It comes standard with Lighting Package, limited-slip diff, and the brakes from the Golf R. Triple-digit speeds on the interstate feel like you're doing 70. And yet....and yet, it feels a bit boring in all its German perfection. The Civic Si is more playful, what with its short gear ratios and lighter curb weight. It doesn't feel as premium as the GTI, and it's nowhere near as quick, but it handles brilliantly. Hondas also maintain that legendary reputation for reliability. Finally, the massive incentives by VW have put the GTI in a similar price bracket with the Si. My advice is to test-drive both more than once.
 

ClemsonPatriot

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The GTI Sport is one cool customer. Built like a bank vault, drives and feels like it costs thousands more. It comes standard with Lighting Package, limited-slip diff, and the brakes from the Golf R. Triple-digit speeds on the interstate feel like you're doing 70. And yet....and yet, it feels a bit boring in all its German perfection. The Civic Si is more playful, what with its short gear ratios and lighter curb weight. It doesn't feel as premium as the GTI, and it's nowhere near as quick, but it handles brilliantly. Hondas also maintain that legendary reputation for reliability. Finally, the massive incentives by VW have put the GTI in a similar price bracket with the Si. My advice is to test-drive both more than once.
Yeah my friend bought a 2017 GTI and got 4k under MSRP; bringing the prices between his GTI and my Si to within a few hundred bucks. Test driving the GTI was fun! But I need a little bit of trunk space to transport my rifles.....
 

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Yeah my friend bought a 2017 GTI and got 4k under MSRP; bringing the prices between his GTI and my Si to within a few hundred bucks. Test driving the GTI was fun! But I need a little bit of trunk space to transport my rifles.....
OT but what kinda shooting sports are you into?

This was another reason why I don't prefer hatchbacks.

Because of laws here, I need to transport firearms in a locked container and a car trunk counts, but the trunk of a hatch doesn't. I'd have to get a bunch of stupid padlocks.

The sedan allows me to just throw them back there.

If the GTI came in a sedan I'd be all over it. Considered the Jetta GLI, but it's based off the old VW platform and feels just worse than the GTI.
 

ClemsonPatriot

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OT but what kinda shooting sports are you into?

This was another reason why I don't prefer hatchbacks.

Because of laws here, I need to transport firearms in a locked container and a car trunk counts, but the trunk of a hatch doesn't. I'd have to get a bunch of stupid padlocks.

The sedan allows me to just throw them back there.

If the GTI came in a sedan I'd be all over it. Considered the Jetta GLI, but it's based off the old VW platform and feels just worse than the GTI.
I shoot for recreation. Trap shooting, target (pistols and long range), and hunting. I plan to eventually get into 3-gun competitions though.

I was super happy when I was able to get my Rem 700 (in it's hard case) into the back of my Si laying it left to right. Perfect fit! Then the narrower portion of the trunk is wide enough for ARs, shotguns, etc.

In SC even without a CC permit (which I have) it is legal to carry a pistol in a closed compartment (glove box or center console) or in a locked container in the luggage compartment (trunk). I have been interested if the center console in our Si is considered a "closed compartment" because it is never technically fully closed like in my wife's car or most other vehicles.....

Another reason why I picked the Si sedan over a Civic hatchback was the trunk. The concealment was key for me! Yeah there's that little pull-over shade in the hatch but that doesn't convince me enough whether for guns or anything that might catch someone's interest walking by my car in the parking lot.
 

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Shame the CTR didnt make it. It would have been entertaining to see the Si compared to it.

Still, was a treat to see the camaro zl1 & zl-1le compete. That was the highlight for me. Was really rooting for the 1le to beat the current gen z06 (tested I think from the last year), and sadly it wasnt the case even if it were close.
 
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ronmcdon

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The same goes for virtually all auto manufacturers... Original tires are usually of the lowest possible quality.
I beg to differ. Today a lot of performance oriented cars come with a lot better summer tires than in the past. Even my mom's mercedes E class she leased 4 years ago came with pirelli zero's not too different in class to super sports.

A lot of cars from the factory come with street legal r-compounds, which I have mixed feelings about. On this test alone I think the alfa and 1le have them. I dont remember seeing this a decade ago.

The Si I recall did not have the best summer tires but they were not terrible either. I do think it would be nice for them to come from the factory w michelin super sports, but I understand many of the clientele at that price point might be more frugal and sensitive to price increases (not intended to be a put down).
 

BarracksSi

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The Si I recall did not have the best summer tires but they were not terrible either. I do think it would be nice for them to come from the factory w michelin super sports, but I understand many of the clientele at that price point might be more frugal and sensitive to price increases (not intended to be a put down).
Buyers might also be sensitive to shorter tire life, too. Someone buying high-grip 200-treadwear summer tires usually knows what they're getting into, but not every new car buyer would be thinking the same way.

Someday.... SOMEDAY.... I'll be able to try some circuit driving. I'd need a big bump in pay first, though; my wife and I have a deal going, where if I cross a salary threshold, I can have a sports car. ;)
 

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OT but what kinda shooting sports are you into?

This was another reason why I don't prefer hatchbacks.

Because of laws here, I need to transport firearms in a locked container and a car trunk counts, but the trunk of a hatch doesn't. I'd have to get a bunch of stupid padlocks.

The sedan allows me to just throw them back there.

If the GTI came in a sedan I'd be all over it. Considered the Jetta GLI, but it's based off the old VW platform and feels just worse than the GTI.
Interesting, we have the same law here. Of course only applies when you're not in the car I think.

I didn't buy the GTI cause the hatch space is too short vs the Civic hatch. It has much less usable space, if you don't like stacking stuff.
 

VarmintCong

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Another reason why I picked the Si sedan over a Civic hatchback was the trunk. The concealment was key for me! Yeah there's that little pull-over shade in the hatch but that doesn't convince me enough whether for guns or anything that might catch someone's interest walking by my car in the parking lot.
it's impossible to see past the shade. I'd have been ok with either but at the time the only 6 speed was the hatch.
 

Rockstar08

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The GTI Sport is one cool customer. Built like a bank vault, drives and feels like it costs thousands more. It comes standard with Lighting Package, limited-slip diff, and the brakes from the Golf R. Triple-digit speeds on the interstate feel like you're doing 70. And yet....and yet, it feels a bit boring in all its German perfection. The Civic Si is more playful, what with its short gear ratios and lighter curb weight. It doesn't feel as premium as the GTI, and it's nowhere near as quick, but it handles brilliantly. Hondas also maintain that legendary reputation for reliability. Finally, the massive incentives by VW have put the GTI in a similar price bracket with the Si. My advice is to test-drive both more than once.
I absolutely agree with you. I compared only the GTI to the SI and bought the SI. Here are my reasons why. First I have had 2 GTI's before and love them however the Honda will get 50% better gas mileage seriously! The Honda will definitely be more reliable as well as hold its resale value better I have a feeling. I could have bought a GTI Sport for almost $5,500 of MSRP but I also bought the SI for almost $2,200 off MSRP so there still was a difference. The GTI I would say handles a little better and a lot of fun to drive and I would have bought the DSG twin clutch auto in that car personally but the SI overall with the manual is just more fun to drive. I know everyone says the GTI has a better interior because of the materials that are used but seriously how often to do touch the freakin dashboard with your hands...lol. Personally the styling of the Honda looks better to me, more up to date I would say while the GTI interior seems like old styling to me. The other thing is the Honda can be tuned now just like the GTI since we have a fantastic turbo motor, the car is lighter than the GTI and the exterior definitely looks better than the GTI. The other thing that really pissed me off about the current model GTI is you CANNOT get a damn sunroof unless you get leather how stupid was VW to do that! Next year they are changing that back where you can get the sunroof without leather but seriously that is one of the dumbest things VW did to their options list. Lastly keep in mind the only reason that you can get such a great deal on the GTI right now is because its the outgoing model. VW is changing to a newer version or model again for next year with some more updates.
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