Any Sense Of How Many CTRs Each Dealer Will Get?

modernsportscar

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I know no one knows/wait and see/not sure. I often hear two as a decent average, but of course it doesn't work that way necessarily. Also likely depends on dealer volume and so on. I'm 3rd on the waiting list at my local dealer, and trying to see how likely it is I'll be getting one. Probably screwed, because I'm fairly certain I want CW, and with such a limited run beggers can't be choosers color-wise.

I bought an Integra Type R brand new right off the showroom floor with a $700 markup in 1998. Car had been sitting for weeks. How times have changed.
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metal_driver

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Will definitely depend on the size of the dealer. Would recommend also trying to get on the list with some other dealers. If your patient you will definitely get one in time. If you are willing to travel to get it this should help open up options for you as far as waiting time and maybe even pricing. In the past I have travelled a pretty good distance to get the model, colour and type of car I was looking at for a good price.
 

Gm52380

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FWIW, when I picked up my Sport Touring 2 weeks ago, I was asking my salesperson about how many CTR the dealership would be getting. This dealership is one of the top 25 dealerships in the US, and located in the Chicago suburbs. She said they would only be allotted 4 for the entire year, and that they had 5 deposits placed. She also mentioned that the owner had said that they would go for MSRP, and would not mark them up with a premium.
 

SaiHayashi

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What I understand and speaking for Australian market is, as a pre-production preorder you do get to choose colour, simply because they basically sold the car prior to it being made so its just a matter of +1 into the queue. I'm told at 2 different dealers where i put down deposit at both places.

Obviously the colour choice will depend on whether they can fullfill the minimal amount of order in that colour to make up one batch as they need to make sure they dont waste all that effort into making one car's worth of paint say sonic grey.
 


JYR

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My sister said her dealer was getting 2
My local rep told me we are getting 4
My friends sister told me her rep told her that the GM said they were getting 6
The Canadians are getting like 8 at each dealership

...see where I am going with this?
 

SaiHayashi

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My sister said her dealer was getting 2
My local rep told me we are getting 4
My friends sister told me her rep told her that the GM said they were getting 6
The Canadians are getting like 8 at each dealership

...see where I am going with this?
Perhaps I worded it ambiguously.

It's written "white" on my preorder contract, that's all I saying.
 

Dicecube

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How the hell would forum members know exactly? Lol
 
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bobafettm

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Call in and ask them. How the hell would forum members know exactly? Lol
How the hell would dealerships know exactly :p This is the issue... Everyone!!! I mean everyone right now... Is guessing. Including your dealerships.
 

jdmk20akid

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I'm in sales at a dealership and check all of our Honda allocation systems every day on a national scale in the U.S., and I can honestly tell you that absolutely none of these dealership know how many they are getting. They're just hyping up potential customers.

In my personal opinion I think these will be pretty limited. I'm thinking dealerships will only receive 1 to 4 per year depending on dealership size and Civic hatchback sales.
 


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I'm thinking dealerships will only receive 1 to 4 per year depending on dealership size and Civic hatchback sales.
Why does everyone think that the Executive VP of American Honda was lying when he said Honda hopes to sell “a couple thousand a month” and promised there would be no cap on sales?

Honda is in business to maximize profits/shareholders return on investment and will only make/sell Civic variants that have a reasonable return on investment. Looking at this as a business case scenario, let’s eavesdrop on a meeting that could have happened in late 2014:

Executive 1: Type-R sales are stagnant at around 2,500 a year worldwide. At this sales volume we will have to discontinue the variant. That number of units is not enough to recoup development and production costs at the profit level we require.

Executive 2: We could do a complete redesign on the new hatchback platform, add the American market and see if that gets sales volume where we need it to be.

Executive 1: Good idea!

The second part of the business case involves the Swindon facility. This operation can currently produce approximately 150,000 cars a year, has a mothballed production line that can be brought back into service making capacity 250,00 cars a year and the entire facility will be devoted to production of hatchback variants by the end of 2017. The optimal scenario for Honda is to grow the sales of all hatchback variants so the company is getting the full use (and profit) from the entire facility. This means that Honda wants to sell as many Type-Rs as they can to help the Swindon plant reach the 250,000/year production figure. Actual sales targets are a guess, but a reasonable assumption would be at least 10,000 Type-Rs a year to justify the variant and 20,000 a year to reach their full profit target for the variant.
 

jdmk20akid

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Why does everyone think that the Executive VP of American Honda was lying when he said Honda hopes to sell “a couple thousand a month” and promised there would be no cap on sales?

Honda is in business to maximize profits/shareholders return on investment and will only make/sell Civic variants that have a reasonable return on investment. Looking at this as a business case scenario, let’s eavesdrop on a meeting that could have happened in late 2014:

Executive 1: Type-R sales are stagnant at around 2,500 a year worldwide. At this sales volume we will have to discontinue the variant. That number of units is not enough to recoup development and production costs at the profit level we require.

Executive 2: We could do a complete redesign on the new hatchback platform, add the American market and see if that gets sales volume where we need it to be.

Executive 1: Good idea!

The second part of the business case involves the Swindon facility. This operation can currently produce approximately 150,000 cars a year, has a mothballed production line that can be brought back into service making capacity 250,00 cars a year and the entire facility will be devoted to production of hatchback variants by the end of 2017. The optimal scenario for Honda is to grow the sales of all hatchback variants so the company is getting the full use (and profit) from the entire facility. This means that Honda wants to sell as many Type-Rs as they can to help the Swindon plant reach the 250,000/year production figure. Actual sales targets are a guess, but a reasonable assumption would be at least 10,000 Type-Rs a year to justify the variant and 20,000 a year to reach their full profit target for the variant.
Honda doesn't make near the profit off of these Type R's as they would on the other hatchback variants. I'm not saying that they don't make ANY profit, but in the sake of your argument it would be a much better financial decision to produce more vehicles that don't have to have different sets of parts, and import engines from another country. Also Honda has stated before they have a goal of producing 30-40k civic hatchback to the US per year. And the key word in that 250k units of production is that the plant is CAPABLE. They are no where near close to reaching that kind of capacity.

You're failing to realize that this is a HALO car and the Type R's have never been produced in an unlimited supply. Also everyone thats holding on the the phrase that Honda's VP said about "making as many as the market demands", needs to understand that him saying that was so cleverly phrased its not even funny. It doesn't guarantee any number of vehicles, and even gives him room to fall on the fact that he can just blame "the market" for low production numbers.

PS: Another thing to consider here is that in order for Honda to make and financial sense of shipping all of the TYPE R engines to the UK is to do ONE BIG SHIPMENT that way its not a constant tab they're having to pay to import and export all these parts. I bet they only send one boat over to the UK per year with all the engines for that production year at a time. And I highly doubt that they'd be sending 10,000 CTR engines over per year.

Again..... This is just MY logic. The truth is that none of us have the slightest clue.
 
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Honda doesn't make near the profit off of these Type R's as they would on the other hatchback variants. Also Honda has stated before they have a goal of producing 30-40k civic hatchback to the US per year. And the key word in that 250k units of production is that the plant is CAPABLE. They are no where near close to reaching that kind of capacity.

You're failing to realize that this is a HALO car Also everyone thats holding on the the phrase that Honda's VP said about "making as many as the market demands", needs to understand that him saying that was so cleverly phrased its not even funny.

PS: Another thing to consider here is that in order for Honda to make and financial sense of shipping all of the TYPE R engines to the UK is to do ONE BIG SHIPMENT

Again..... This is just MY logic. The truth is that none of us have the slightest clue.
You have to think like an auto executive. The Type-R is not the Honda Corp "Halo" car. That role is fulfilled by the NSX. The Civic brand is tied to reliability and value and the Type-R is the sporting representative of that. We would need to bring in a Honda Exec for a final answer, but I don't see a diminished profit on Type-Rs. Remember, we are talking Honda Corp profit, not dealer profit.

Looking at shipping, a modern container ship can carry tens of thousands of automobile engines at a time. The average container ship can transport over 3,500 containers at a time and each container can hold many engines. The largest container ships can have over 15,000 containers per voyage. Moving 10,000 automobile engines in a single voyage is trivial if that is what Honda decided to do.

Please also note that I did not quote the "make as many" statement. I used an actual quote from John Mendel (American Honda Executive VP) that stated "a couple thousand a month". I don't see any ambiguity in that statement. Continuing on the Honda statement front, they actually said their initial US hatchback sales target (all variants) is 50,000/year. Bear in mind that hatchbacks are more popular in other parts of the world than the US so that is a reasonable contribution to an eventual 250,000/year production total. A final note on Swindon, the plant is currently fully capable of producing 150,000 cars a year. Restoring the second line would bring capacity to 250,000/year.

All in all, the business case for 10,000 to 20,000 Type-Rs a year is clear.
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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PS: Another thing to consider here is that in order for Honda to make and financial sense of shipping all of the TYPE R engines to the UK is to do ONE BIG SHIPMENT that way its not a constant tab they're having to pay to import and export all these parts. I bet they only send one boat over to the UK per year with all the engines for that production year at a time. And I highly doubt that they'd be sending 10,000 CTR engines over per year.

Again..... This is just MY logic. The truth is that none of us have the slightest clue.
I have no real clue here, but I do know the Orion Highway makes round trips. IT also carries more than just Honda's on it when it makes stops in Swindon and somewhere in Germany as I recall.
When it arrives in Georgia or Baltimore, they offload cars but it wouldn't surprise me if they load on engines or whatever. Transatlantic transport is provided by a 3rd party and I doubt they make the trip empty in either direction.

I could be speaking from my posterior...
 

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Your dealer will be lucky to get 1 at best.

Hope you placed a deposit months ago.
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