2017 Honda Civic Si Prototype Debut - Q&A, Photos, Video

[bikejog]

You people have to realize that the whole tuner crowd audience officially doesn't exist internally at Honda. So if they give you the 2.0 which would make modification a viable platform where you could get cheap horsespower, you wouldn't bother with the Type R.

At Honda, they have a HP figure, a fuel economy number, and a cost to meet to make the Si worth their time. If it makes over 205 HP, gets similar gas mileage and is at an attractive price point, this Si is better than the last and that's objectively all that matters to them. Can't muster 300 HP after mods and a tune on the 1.5T? Honda doesn't care because the demographic doesn't officially exist. When was the last time you saw Honda officially acknowledging and promoting the whole tuner crowd? Never.

How come VW can use the same displacement motor on the GTI and the R? If you ask me, Honda has lost its soul!

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[Xyrex]

I'm remaining optimistic and hoping that they aren't referring to the 1.5t in its current form. Offering an Si without VTEC would be nothing short of idiocy. Hopefully, for the enthusiasts' and for Si sales' sake they use this next year to announce whether or not this is just a flash tuned version of the current 1.5 or something a little more respectable. I'd be willing to accept a 1.5t vtec to avoid taking sales from the Type R, however everything about this seems like a terrible decision on the part of Honda.

 

[Newflyer3]

How come VW can use the same motor on the GTI and the R? If you ask me, Honda has lost its soul!

I'm gonna say VW uses the 2.0 in the GTI on the premise that it is used in many other VW vehicles, Audis and all those that require power in the mid 200s. Lots of reliability data, existing resources that have been pooled into that engine that allows its adoption into the GTI cost effective. Since the 2.0 motor is used exclusively in the Type R, the cost may not be justifiable. Then again, VW had to start somewhere... With a volume car I guess

 

[SpartanSi]

For those of you disappointed by the engine size, just keep in mind some of the factors Honda probably had to consider when making the decision:

1. Will the Si cannibalize on Type R sales?

2. If the 2.0L engine is used the cost will go up, potentially making the car unaffordable to the target market, and might prevent it from competing against certain cars like the Veloster Turbo, for example.

3. The 1.5L motor is extremely robust and capable of 300 hp (durability tested to this amount, so we've heard). Same goes for the manual transmission. There is more than enough headroom for the Si to use that motor. Even if the Si only has about 215 hp it will still feel quite a bit faster than the previous generation one, due to the huge swell of torque the turbo motor generates. We just purchased a 1.5T manual transmission sedan and I can tell you it feels quick, even though it is only rated at around 174 hp.

Si cannablize Type R sales? These are two totally platforms with the Si being Coupe and Sedan and the CTR offered only in the 5 door. They are different cars with different buyers. Couple this with the fact that the Type R will be scarce and most likely a limited production lottery type of product.........I simply do not see the competition. As for boosting the 1.5T to 300 hp.....if Honda really thought that the 1.5T was capable of this, they would not have put a 2.0T in the CTR.

Honestly, I am really disappointed with the news surrounding the 1.5T. Can the engine produce 220 hp? Sure.....can the engine produce this HP reliably for 150k.....probably doubtful. What is most troubling is that Honda just thumbed their nose at the hot hatch GTI market and acknowledged that they do not intend to compete in this market with the Si. Over boosting the 1.5T will limit the life and reliability of this product.....tuners get to build a car that is not a platform that will be easy to tweak and mod for dependable HP. Cannot believe how badly Honda wiffed with the Si .....and new CRV. Both are using this engine and both will be uninspiring. I waited for Both of these products......patiently hoping that Honda would build them or offer something that made either or both special. Nothing special with either.....might as well brand these products as Hyundai or Kia......as Honda has convinced me that they are following the competition rather than leading. With the top of the line Tucson you can get 7spd DCT, panoramic moonroof, heated and cooled seats and a 1.6T engine. Honda cannot touch this.....CVT, std moonroof, no cooled seats....and smaller engine.

Looks like it will be a WRX for my next car......at least with this car you actually get a car that can be tweaked and tuned to add reliable HP.

 

[thaseint]

How come VW can use the same motor on the GTI and the R? If you ask me, Honda has lost its soul!

Subaru wrx v. Sti
Fiesta st v. Focus st v. Rs

I never bought the argument that a 2.0t si would hurt CTR sales when the competition has been doing it for years. Honda clearly knows it works.

 

[Newflyer3]

If I can get a 2.0 Si, add a tune, maybe a bolt on for 300HP, why spend $5000 more on a Type R? Trust me, the Type R might be cool, but it's main selling point is still power, and if I can easily squeeze the equivalent power from the Si, I'm gonna turn a blind eye to the R regardless of what else it has

 

[bikejog]

Subaru wrx v. Sti
Fiesta st v. Focus st v. Rs

I never bought the argument that a 2.0t si would hurt CTR sales when the competition has been doing it for years. Honda clearly knows it works.

I don't know what your point is. Fiesta ST and Focus ST have different displacement motors. The VW GTI and the VW R have the same displacement motors. I'm saying if VW can do that, why can't Honda? If wasn't for greed on Honda's part.

 

[megasutemeny78]

I like the seats, and I assume it will take premium, so the selling point for me was the seats and steering wheel. I maybe change my mind, and not willing to pay 1.5x more for those features and load premium. Hatch LX should be enough for me, and I will dream about those seats.

 

[Kokuryu2016]

Subaru wrx v. Sti
Fiesta st v. Focus st v. Rs

I never bought the argument that a 2.0t si would hurt CTR sales when the competition has been doing it for years. Honda clearly knows it works.

The only good news about them using the 1.5 is that this Si will be sitting on lots available for anyone to grab. So the people who are happy with this abomination will have absolutely no problem finding one in whatever color they want sitting at a dealership. Just make sure the dealer cleans off all the dust these will accumulate on the lots. Probably a bit lower than Msrp as well since the targeted market can find better products elsewhere.

 

[Kokuryu2016]

I like the seats, and I assume it will take premium, so the selling point for me was the seats and steering wheel. I maybe change my mind, and not willing to pay 1.5x more for those features and load premium. Hatch LX should be enough for me, and I will dream about those seats.

It's pretty easy to switch out steering wheel on this gen. I already swapped mine out for the leather steering wheel and shifter as well.

 

[bikejog]

The only good news about them using the 1.5 is that this Si will be sitting on lots available for anyone to grab. So the people who are happy with this abomination will have absolutely no problem finding one in whatever color they want sitting at a dealership. Just make sure the dealer cleans off all the dust these will accumulate on the lots. Probably a bit lower than Msrp as well since the targeted market can find better products elsewhere.

Hey that's the best news I read so far. Not a bad argument for getting a SI providing if it will be reliable. Problem is it's just too new to know for sure.

 

[Eddie]

When was the last time you saw Honda officially acknowledging and promoting the whole tuner crowd? Never.

These Tuners all had Civic Si's from HONDA of America before they were released...."06 Civic Si" @Sema You want to see HYPE from Honda and the aftermarket crowd watch a few minutes of this.

 

[SpartanSi]

Maybe they were trying to keep the high-revving character of the Si going with this choice, but I wanted them to talk about that to diffuse the obvious immediate disappointment many people would feel.

This engine will not be a high rev engine. This car will not be like any of the previous Si vehicles. It will offer torque and generate its HP at lower RPM's vs. previous Si vehicles. This is actually good news as it will make the car easier to drive fast. The problem is that the 1.5T will have limited tuner potential. Turning up the boost will equate to a shorter engine life, higher potential to burn oil sooner and other pressure issues like head gasket failures.....using the 2.0T would have given customers a better tuner platform. This equates to a huge marketing miss by Honda. The car looks great but, it appears the designer budget was blown on the stupid rear exhaust finish instead of focusing on giving driving enthusiasts what they really wanted.....a tuner friendly platform to build off of.

 

[Newflyer3]

These Tuners all had Civic Si's from HONDA of America before they were released...."06 Civic Si" @Sema You want to see HYPE from Honda and the aftermarket crowd watch a few minutes of this.

Yeah, they do it at SEMA just to fuck around with the professionals for a week but they'll never acknowledge us in the backyard who want to put a cold air intake, bigger turbos or whatever we do as backyard hackjobs.

 

[twitchy]

disappointed, only thing i like is the seats. no LED lights sucks to probably end up getting the hatchback sport touring

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