2017 Civic Type R puts down 295WHP bone stock on the dyno

[Boostlag]

You're not understanding me. And 240whp? Must be a very generous dyno. Most bolt on k20's with a tune make 220-230whp on most dynojets. Some even below 220whp. My 00 coupe is still confortable. I don't care about power steering. Being able to feel the road is a lot better in my opinion. Just a full interior 00 coupe (2500lbs) beating 300whp cars...lol. Oh and these swaps can certainly have A/C and powersteering. How you know there's no stereo in the video? Haha. Anyways...just saying it happens

lets gut the interior and put in 2 12's!. Trust me if you wanna to accelerate fast, FWD cars are not built for it. You can buy used 5.0 mustangs for fairly cheap and they take mods well... ones that will make that k20 look like its going backwards.

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[Joescivic]

lets gut the interior and put in 2 12's!. Trust me if you wanna to accelerate fast, FWD cars are not built for it. You can buy used 5.0 mustangs for fairly cheap and they take mods well... ones that will make that k20 look like its going backwards.

Still thinking I'm saying something I'm not....

 

[NiltyTypeR]

a "tuned" type r can take a 5.0 from a roll depending ultimately on how modded the 5.0 is and how good each driver is. MK7 GTi's are pulling 5.0's all the time on stage 2 tunes(and vice versa). Most Type R's probably wont, but some definitely will. This also isn't a drag car so really its different strokes for different folks. As for a k20 in a eg hatch. Obviously a lot of you do not know how magical the Kseries is lol. Alot of all motor builds making over 300whp, pretty simple motor builds getting 240-260hp even. Crazy gear ratios and insanely low weight is a lot more potent than a 3800 pound 380whp tank. But yes, spend 5-7k on a bolt on supercharger and you have a 5-600 whp mustang that can get deep into the 10s and lower with the right setup.

 

[kritz]

Sparks is running 9.80's at nearly 150MPH in his 13 SI.(boosted K24) Some of the FWD cars are ridiculous fast(record 7.6 at over 200)Amazing..

 

[Joescivic]

My avatar pic should say i know about K20's.
K20a2
Custom 3 inch diameter CAI I designed
Hytech header, VERY restrictive Apexi WS2 exhaust
RBC intake manifold bored
74mm HR throttle body
08 TSX cams
RDX injectors
Exedy stage 1 clutch
Tuned on a dynojet with Kpro, making a mere 223whp.

That swap has been in that car since 08

 

[totopo]

I don't think it's that simple. The more you stress the drivetrain, the more the friction will increase. So, I don't think it's fixed value (the losses). I don't think it's linear either.

It's because you guys aren't talking about the same thing even though you are using the same term of "drivetrain loss"

What VitViper is talking about is what is commonly referred to on drivetrain losses measured on an intertial dyno. Inertial dynos measure how fast your car's tires can spin up a heavy drum. So things that effect the power delivered to the wheel as it spins up is counted. Most of the energy loss from the crank to the drum is lost to the rotational energy in spinning up all the drivetrain and wheel and tire components. This is what is classically referred to as that 15% "drivetrain loss" And people generally view it as a percentage because as you go from a one car to a completely different car with higher hp, the higher hp car usually from the factory comes with more robust basically everything that spins so it has more losses than the lower hp car. But if you keep the same model car and tune it, it's not like you put anything heavier on, so the rotational part is a static number. That's why if you put lighter wheels on your car it will make more power on an inertial dyno. It doesn't mean your engine is making more HP, but your car can do more work over time to the dyno wheel.

The other part of drivetrain loss is what is really called drivetrain loss, which is the energy lost through the drivetrain between the crank and the tires in the form of heat. This is actually pretty low. Like <5% according to: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/modp-1005-drivetrain-power-loss/
This loss is proportional and will increase with more HP.

 

[VitViper]

I don't think it's that simple. The more you stress the drivetrain, the more the friction will increase. So, I don't think it's fixed value (the losses). I don't think it's linear either.

You might lose a TINY bit more due to higher twisting/flexing forces on the drivetrain components, but how do you mean friction will increase? You're turning the same exact components. Regardless it's not a linear % like people like to quote.

Think of it this way -- most of the RWD cars I've worked on have lost 40-50hp (430hp mustang dynos 380, 240hp s2k dynos 190, 200hp frs dynos 150). If I went off percentages I'd have to say the FRS loses 25%? That'd be crazy... our FRS makes 530 now, 25% is over 120hp.

 

[Vaders CTR]

Update:

I am dragging this thread back out. I had to know for myself, so I had my CTR dynoed this morning. I have not received the email with the pulls yet. I will post them with the videos together. Read on for more information about the dynos and differences.

I spoke with two different tuners. The one tuner, who dynoed my car was familiar with the videos that were posted online about CTRs. He is a Type R fan and wanted to see mine dynoed. In short, he explained that there are ways to increase HP/Torque numbers on the dyno and when looking at the results how to spot them. He said that these signs are usually not included in videos or of posted pictures. Looking in the previous posts and checking the videos, he was right. The information to determine how the ratings were measured are missing. Probably not intentionally. I've had several cars dynoed before, I did not know where to find it or what they meant. Now I do.

These tuners I have talked to, both have used dynojet and mustang dynos. They claimed that the new Dynojets (mine was tested on a dyno that was about a year old) eliminated the causes of why dynojets measured more than the mustang dynos. Lots of technical jargon that I don't remember. Given these guys dyno lots of cars at different dynos around town, they said that the differences between the mustang and dynojet are minimal as long as the dynojet is newer. The tuners suggested the normal drivetrain loss they see with FWD is 12-14%. 14% was what they called reasonable and safe for estimating crank HP/Torque. (18% RWD 21% AWD except Bentleys that were closer to 25% and other heavy AWDs)

Short story, yes the CTR is underrated. Flip side is that with my results, I can explain why the cars dynoed ranged from 288whp -301whp from the videos and posted pictures of the dyno sheet. The gap of 13whp I do not think is real. Much much closer in reality. Stay tuned. I'll hound them tomorrow about my dyno sheets. Just wanted to share what I learned.

 

[VitViper]

@Vaders CTR the newer Dynojet software doesn't allow you to change correction factors -- typically you'll see lots of people posting STD corrected plots (a lot of times leaving these details out of the graphs/videos) which will inflate #'s 3-5%, which is easily 10-15hp. A common issue is the environmental sensors are mounted in bad locations (these are used for the correction factor %) and will skew #'s.

The thing to take away from dynos is they are a TOOL. We use ours as an R&D tool, a way to track changes and to test the vehicle (when "tuning" the ECU). Too many people get hung up on numbers.

 

[Vaders CTR]

@Vaders CTR the newer Dynojet software doesn't allow you to change correction factors -- typically you'll see lots of people posting STD corrected plots (a lot of times leaving these details out of the graphs/videos) which will inflate #'s 3-5%, which is easily 10-15hp. A common issue is the environmental sensors are mounted in bad locations (these are used for the correction factor %) and will skew #'s.

The thing to take away from dynos is they are a TOOL. We use ours as an R&D tool, a way to track changes and to test the vehicle (when "tuning" the ECU). Too many people get hung up on numbers.

Slow down, don't spoil it! The above was some of the items mentioned as well as a few others. I was hoping to illustrate the changes in correction factors so everyone could see how it impacted the numbers and how to tell when reading a dyno sheet online or in a video. Seeing is believing for some.

Bottom line, everything you said is right on with what I was told. He was playing with the correction factor and I could see the differences in measured hp/torque. My numbers met or exceeded the posted numbers based on the various correction factors used.

 

[VitViper]

Slow down, don't spoil it! The above was some of the items mentioned as well as a few others. I was hoping to illustrate the changes in correction factors so everyone could see how it impacted the numbers and how to tell when reading a dyno sheet online or in a video. Seeing is believing for some.

Bottom line, everything you said is right on with what I was told. He was playing with the correction factor and I could see the differences in measured hp/torque. My numbers met or exceeded the posted numbers based on the various correction factors.

I had a whole blog post about it a long while ago... You can even change what gear you're in on the dyno and change the #'s. Lots of "my tooner is better than your tooner" arguments from kids on facebook with their only "evidence" is a dyno print out. LoL

 

[CarlitosPR]

I'd like to see what it can pull on a mustang dyno.

This is my CTR bone stock, 93 Oct fuel on a Mustang Dyno and comparison with other bone stock cars on the same Mustang dyno.

 

[Xcell]

My CTR on the rollers last night. SAE corrected.

 

[slimfit]

^^That's impressive! Mustang?

 

[GSquared]

^^That's impressive! Mustang?

The one right above you is DynoJet and above that is Mustang, Dynojet seems to almost always be higher.

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