2016 Civic vs. VW Golf

[axreyb]

Surprised the Golf comparison has not been started yet. I will most likely be buying a '16 Civic LX 6spd manual (Canadian version) in March. I have some cargo and passenger space requirements so I am also crossing with the Mazda 3 hatch and Golf Sportwagen (Mazda 3 sedan and regular Golf are a bit too small). Took a Golf 5spd manual out for spin yesterday. Pretty well as advertised in most reviews - it drives great and is a nice car. Biggest difference compared to the 2.0L Civic and Mazda 3 2.0L is the midrange torque from the turbo engine. It gets up and goes, and it barely revs 2100rpm in 5th at 120 pm/h (75 mph) whereas the Civic is turning 2900rpm at that speed.

These 3 cars (Civic 2.0L, Mazda 3 2.0L, Golf 1.8T all manual trans) are so close in feature content, how they drive, interior quality, etc. These are great driving cars for around the $20K mark. However, the VW is almost immediately eliminated for me. I plan to keep this car for the long haul and hand down to my daughter, so the VW reliability history scares me. I decided to peruse the VW forums to see how things look these days. First post I stumble upon is a guy with an oil leak on his new Golf 1.8 TSI with barely 2000 miles on the odo. First response is "congratulations on your first rear main seal (rms) leak". Ugh. I search the net and this seems relatively common, among other significant issues. I realize forums concentrate these experiences, but compared relative to Honda and Mazda forums there is a lot more noise.

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[Sushimaster]

Based on look and space alone, the Golf is way out of it's league.

 

[CTR]

I would purchase just about any other make before a VW. It's one of the only brands that I truly despise.

 

[Buccal_Up]

Golf has a nice and proven motor, more power, been out longer etc... ride seems to be a bit firmer on the golf. i still chose the civic due to better features for the money, but the golf would be a close second. I think the jetta is a better comparison for the civic sedan though

 

[takemorepills]

Surprised the Golf comparison has not been started yet. I will most likely be buying a '16 Civic LX 6spd manual (Canadian version) in March. I have some cargo and passenger space requirements so I am also crossing with the Mazda 3 hatch and Golf Sportwagen (Mazda 3 sedan and regular Golf are a bit too small). Took a Golf 5spd manual out for spin yesterday. Pretty well as advertised in most reviews - it drives great and is a nice car. Biggest difference compared to the 2.0L Civic and Mazda 3 2.0L is the midrange torque from the turbo engine. It gets up and goes, and it barely revs 2100rpm in 5th at 120 pm/h (75 mph) whereas the Civic is turning 2900rpm at that speed.

These 3 cars (Civic 2.0L, Mazda 3 2.0L, Golf 1.8T all manual trans) are so close in feature content, how they drive, interior quality, etc. These are great driving cars for around the $20K mark. However, the VW is almost immediately eliminated for me. I plan to keep this car for the long haul and hand down to my daughter, so the VW reliability history scares me. I decided to peruse the VW forums to see how things look these days. First post I stumble upon is a guy with an oil leak on his new Golf 1.8 TSI with barely 2000 miles on the odo. First response is "congratulations on your first rear main seal (rms) leak". Ugh. I search the net and this seems relatively common, among other significant issues. I realize forums concentrate these experiences, but compared relative to Honda and Mazda forums there is a lot more noise.

You need to look around these forums and take any anti-VW statements with a grain of salt. The 2.0 engine stop sale, the power windows malfunctioning, auto wipers with a mind of their own, infotainment systems wigging out, fit and finish issues, cheap glove box, etc. Seriously, Honda seems to be taking some German car cues these days: build interesting, fun to drive vehicles with little regard to overall quality. The first truly "unreliable" Civic, and it happens to be the most desirable.

When the CivicX was first released, I was disappointed that we are so far out from the Si, so I leased a GTI. I did not make this choice lightly! I too don't think VW is a manufacturer of reliable vehicles. Vehicle reliability surveys prove this. One survey I read said VW has 53/100 problems, Honda was like 16/100. HOWEVER, model specific, the GTI was only 22/100.

Spend quality time on this forum. Then spend time on VWVortex or GolfMk7 forums. Get a "feel" for the noise on those forums. The CivicX forum will be far noisier in regards to issues and problems. Then, remember that the Mk7 has been on sale since 2013 in the rest of the world, and pretty much those 2 forums I recommended are international forums that attract most of the English speaking VW enthusiasts. This forum only has a few months of ownership, and there "seems" to be far more unhappy, vocal owners than the Mk7 forums.

Now, in regards to the Golf, I don't know much about them. I never heard of "rms" leak on them. Being VW, it wouldn't surprise me.
But, one thing that surprises me is how reliable the Mk7 GTI is. I have a theory...because it is made in Mexico, it may share many component suppliers that Honda uses for its products, including the Honda Fit. I didn't research the Golf, although I thought the 1.8 is just a downsized 2.0, and there hasn't been any real issues with the 2.0, certainly not rear main seals. But I am not a VW expert, so I am not sure.

One thing I do know is, my GTI has provided me nearly 4 months of perfect, trouble free operation. I am fairly certain that the CivicX would have landed me back at the dealer at least once, and I wouldn't be able to tolerate the Android based infotainment issues. The MIB2 in my GTI works perfect. As do my auto wipers, rear view camera, well everything else.

Since I leased, you can see I don't have 100% faith in the long term VW experience. I am holding out for the CivicX bugs to be ironed out and an automatic Si be released. Also, my wife is due for a new car and she is interested in the 5 door fastback. I can forgive Honda for these first year bugs, but I dunno man....maybe they have started a new chapter in the history of Honda?

BTW, I wouldn't pick a Mazda3 over a CivicX or Golf. We've had Mazdas before. They have been kinda like "Japanese" VW's to us. First car we've ever owned that left us stranded on a freeway in the fast lane during rush hour.

 

[axreyb]

You need to look around these forums and take any anti-VW statements with a grain of salt. The 2.0 engine stop sale, the power windows malfunctioning, auto wipers with a mind of their own, infotainment systems wigging out, fit and finish issues, cheap glove box, etc. Seriously, Honda seems to be taking some German car cues these days: build interesting, fun to drive vehicles with little regard to overall quality. The first truly "unreliable" Civic, and it happens to be the most desirable.

When the CivicX was first released, I was disappointed that we are so far out from the Si, so I leased a GTI. I did not make this choice lightly! I too don't think VW is a manufacturer of reliable vehicles. Vehicle reliability surveys prove this. One survey I read said VW has 53/100 problems, Honda was like 16/100. HOWEVER, model specific, the GTI was only 22/100.

Spend quality time on this forum. Then spend time on VWVortex or GolfMk7 forums. Get a "feel" for the noise on those forums. The CivicX forum will be far noisier in regards to issues and problems. Then, remember that the Mk7 has been on sale since 2013 in the rest of the world, and pretty much those 2 forums I recommended are international forums that attract most of the English speaking VW enthusiasts. This forum only has a few months of ownership, and there "seems" to be far more unhappy, vocal owners than the Mk7 forums.

Now, in regards to the Golf, I don't know much about them. I never heard of "rms" leak on them. Being VW, it wouldn't surprise me.
But, one thing that surprises me is how reliable the Mk7 GTI is. I have a theory...because it is made in Mexico, it may share many component suppliers that Honda uses for its products, including the Honda Fit. I didn't research the Golf, although I thought the 1.8 is just a downsized 2.0, and there hasn't been any real issues with the 2.0, certainly not rear main seals. But I am not a VW expert, so I am not sure.

One thing I do know is, my GTI has provided me nearly 4 months of perfect, trouble free operation. I am fairly certain that the CivicX would have landed me back at the dealer at least once, and I wouldn't be able to tolerate the Android based infotainment issues. The MIB2 in my GTI works perfect. As do my auto wipers, rear view camera, well everything else.

Since I leased, you can see I don't have 100% faith in the long term VW experience. I am holding out for the CivicX bugs to be ironed out and an automatic Si be released. Also, my wife is due for a new car and she is interested in the 5 door fastback. I can forgive Honda for these first year bugs, but I dunno man....maybe they have started a new chapter in the history of Honda?

BTW, I wouldn't pick a Mazda3 over a CivicX or Golf. We've had Mazdas before. They have been kinda like "Japanese" VW's to us. First car we've ever owned that left us stranded on a freeway in the fast lane during rush hour.

I have scoured various forums and the amount of serious issues for VWs is significant. For example, the RMS leak on the TSI engines is quite prevalent and there are Youtube videos describing the issue. The general consensus is you need to really keep on top of the maintenance on a VW and it will simply cost you more in maintenance over time. To most VW owners this is the price you pay for the "better" driving experience.

Its not the first 3 years I am worried about. If I was leasing or otherwise not in for the long haul, I'd probably get the VW. Even the base Golf is a great driving car, and the GTi is an awesome car. They are nice car to drive and I like the features and initial build quality. These days just about anyone can make a car that gets through warranty periods, but it is 5 or 6 years later that I am worried about. I can guarantee that on average the Honda (even this years CivicX) will do better than an average VW over that span.

Now the CivicX. Yes, the breadth of issues being reported are spooking me. I can ignore the piston pin circlip issue as the car I buy will be after the issue and it is an assembly issue, not a design/parts issue. But there are other issues like windows not working, the infotainment system nightmares, etc. The software issues can be sorted out, but the other issues are disconcerting. I am buying a car by the end of March and was set on the Civic but it does look like there are a lot of first year bugs. I was hoping this would not be the case but alas, no such luck. However, I will probably still get the Civic as I would be getting the LX (Canadian version) 6spd manual which suits my needs perfectly and is a great value given the content of our LX.

 

[takemorepills]

axreyb I pretty much agree with you.
The problem with the CivicX is that so soon Honda is really tripping on itself. So, if they can't assemble the snap rings correctly, what makes us think there won't be some other underlying issue waiting for us after warranty? Now, to be fair, Honda rarely makes a dud engine. I have been around Hondas for a long time, used to work at a Honda dealer in the 90's. This never happened before. This is by far the worst product release from Honda that I have witnessed. This is on a Ford or GM level! (also worked for Cadillac after Honda, and this did happen at Cadillac)

Regarding the Golf, I won't defend it. I know for a fact that the GTI engine is solid, and there has been no noise about engine issues on the Mk7 GTI. I thought the 1.8 in the Golf is just a downsized GTI motor, but something else must be different that other people would be having issues with Mk7 1.8's. Maybe they are made in different factories...

It's pretty funny that sometimes in car debates people will suggest one brand over another. A common anti-VW brand is Subaru. My wife has a Subaru. It is in the shop right now for misfires and possible head gasket leak. The Subaru tech said "pretty much all Subaru HG's go around 100K". That is gonna suck to have to pay $2500 for HG repair on a JAPANESE car! Our last Subaru the HG went right before lease was up at 42K miles. I have received a lot of "dude you should've got a WRX" comments about my GTI. It's no secret that WRX's like to destroy things like ring lands, HG's and turbos. The Mk7 has almost 0 issues like that.
Honestly I was going to suggest a Golf to my wife if she decides to give up on her Subaru. Maybe I won't after all....maybe a Scion/Toyota iM would be a good candidate!

 

[R&Civic]

My First post and I am hoping I can share some input on Volkswagen. This is just my opinion and experience I have with both Honda and Volkswagen.

Just a back ground on the vehicle I personally have and my family have. 01 Accord EX-L, 01 Civic DX, 07 RDX (Sold), 08 MDX, 12 VW GTI (SOLD), 15 Jetta 1.8T, 16 Golf R and other makes that is not relevant to this post. I will try to keep it short. But has a lot to say

Many Post that I see about Civic vs VW, Many always stated VW is not reliable or have many problem. Some might even go checked other vw forum backing up the theory/fact. But the true is they are hit or miss. my first volkswagen was a 2012 Mk6 GTI. The dealership even went as far as chipped it for me for stage 1 with GIAC Tune. I had the car for 4 years in total. And trust me when I say I drive it very hard. Over the 4 years ownership, I have ZERO problem. Not even ONE.

Then in early 2015, my wife picked up a new 1.8T Jetta Comfortline. During the first 2 month, we notice a small gap between the window and door trim. Dealership order new door panel and fixed that. Fast track to about 1 year and 9 month or so (Nov/Dec 2016), my wife tried to go via the drive through at Starbucks but the window would open. Mind you, its minus 25 degree here in Edmonton, Alberta. The window was frozen. Since my wife park underground (heated) at work, her car usually get to warm up. So on her way home, she wend over a speed bump on where we live. Her window felt/dropped down. Scared the shit out of her. Late we found out from the dealership that the "clip" that was holding was broken. And last, 1 check engine light came on after I washed her car. Her active front grill shutter wouldn't shut. Most likey due to ice from the car wash. Anyhow over the course of 2 years, 3 trips the the dealership. To Be Honest, they are not bad at all. Car is very sophisticated now a day, some component is bounds to break or go work. I admit it was very stupid of me washing her car in -25 to -30 degree in winter cause the front grill shutter to break. But nothing like oil leaks, misfire, transmission problem or anything major.

Last my 2016 Golf R. I purchased the car in May of 2016 and since only had put 6500 km on it. And knock on wood, so far Zero problem. I also have other friends that have 15 1.8T Golf, another has 15 Mk7 GTI, another 15 Jetta 1.8T Highline... again one the 1.8T Golf has a Water Pump failure at like 30000km. However, he is stage 2 with tune and downpipes.

Now don't get me wrong, most of the Honda/Acura vehicle that we have do definitely have a better reliability but they are not prefect. Parent's 08 MDX has gone through 2 battery already. Something kept draining it. 07 RDX was burning some oil hence we sell it.

Anyhow, I don't want ppl to think I am a VW fan boy. I am actually looking into purchasing a 17 Civic (don't know which trim or type yet). But I thought I should give some insight on VW since I have some personal experience.

 

[crownjewels]

My First post and I am hoping I can share some input on Volkswagen. This is just my opinion and experience I have with both Honda and Volkswagen.

Just a back ground on the vehicle I personally have and my family have. 01 Accord EX-L, 01 Civic DX, 07 RDX (Sold), 08 MDX, 12 VW GTI (SOLD), 15 Jetta 1.8T, 16 Golf R and other makes that is not relevant to this post. I will try to keep it short. But has a lot to say

Many Post that I see about Civic vs VW, Many always stated VW is not reliable or have many problem. Some might even go checked other vw forum backing up the theory/fact. But the true is they are hit or miss. my first volkswagen was a 2012 Mk6 GTI. The dealership even went as far as chipped it for me for stage 1 with GIAC Tune. I had the car for 4 years in total. And trust me when I say I drive it very hard. Over the 4 years ownership, I have ZERO problem. Not even ONE.

Then in early 2015, my wife picked up a new 1.8T Jetta Comfortline. During the first 2 month, we notice a small gap between the window and door trim. Dealership order new door panel and fixed that. Fast track to about 1 year and 9 month or so (Nov/Dec 2016), my wife tried to go via the drive through at Starbucks but the window would open. Mind you, its minus 25 degree here in Edmonton, Alberta. The window was frozen. Since my wife park underground (heated) at work, her car usually get to warm up. So on her way home, she wend over a speed bump on where we live. Her window felt/dropped down. Scared the shit out of her. Late we found out from the dealership that the "clip" that was holding was broken. And last, 1 check engine light came on after I washed her car. Her active front grill shutter wouldn't shut. Most likey due to ice from the car wash. Anyhow over the course of 2 years, 3 trips the the dealership. To Be Honest, they are not bad at all. Car is very sophisticated now a day, some component is bounds to break or go work. I admit it was very stupid of me washing her car in -25 to -30 degree in winter cause the front grill shutter to break. But nothing like oil leaks, misfire, transmission problem or anything major.

Last my 2016 Golf R. I purchased the car in May of 2016 and since only had put 6500 km on it. And knock on wood, so far Zero problem. I also have other friends that have 15 1.8T Golf, another has 15 Mk7 GTI, another 15 Jetta 1.8T Highline... again one the 1.8T Golf has a Water Pump failure at like 30000km. However, he is stage 2 with tune and downpipes.

Now don't get me wrong, most of the Honda/Acura vehicle that we have do definitely have a better reliability but they are not prefect. Parent's 08 MDX has gone through 2 battery already. Something kept draining it. 07 RDX was burning some oil hence we sell it.

Anyhow, I don't want ppl to think I am a VW fan boy. I am actually looking into purchasing a 17 Civic (don't know which trim or type yet). But I thought I should give some insight on VW since I have some personal experience.

Thanks - you've conviced me that I made the right decision by getting a Honda.

 

[tsensational]

Putting in my 2cents for VW golf (MK7) vs Honda Civic (2.0L). I've been working on some VW golfs to develop parts, which involves driving it. I own the Civic X 2.0L. Here are some short term impressions:

The VW Golf MK7, even in 1.8T form is more fun to drive. Handling felt better, turbo spools quick enough, extremely user friendly manual transmission, much more modification potential than the 2.0L Civic, though I can't say much if comparing with the 1.5T. Golf R is a different story; its quick, agile, and comfortable, like a more refined, lighter Evo X. I haven't pushed the Golf R hard so I can't make the full comparison to the Evo but on the street, its definitely a blast to drive.

The Honda Civic isn't as "tight" in terms of handling, but its way more practical. Theres much more trunk space and rear seat room. The Civic Also gets slightly better MPGs. Still not sure about the reliability at this point but my old RSX was a tank. Very late oil changes, never replaced transmission, brake fluid, power steering fluid, coolant, and it still drives more or less fine. Again, not sure if the newer models will be as reliable but they still call them K20s and I'm definitely hoping it'll hold up that well.

 

[turbo lover]

I found headroom in the Golf's rear seat to be better. My head touches the ceiling in the Civic but not in the Golf.

 

[R&Civic]

Putting in my 2cents for VW golf (MK7) vs Honda Civic (2.0L). I've been working on some VW golfs to develop parts, which involves driving it. I own the Civic X 2.0L. Here are some short term impressions:

The VW Golf MK7, even in 1.8T form is more fun to drive. Handling felt better, turbo spools quick enough, extremely user friendly manual transmission, much more modification potential than the 2.0L Civic, though I can't say much if comparing with the 1.5T. Golf R is a different story; its quick, agile, and comfortable, like a more refined, lighter Evo X. I haven't pushed the Golf R hard so I can't make the full comparison to the Evo but on the street, its definitely a blast to drive.

The Honda Civic isn't as "tight" in terms of handling, but its way more practical. Theres much more trunk space and rear seat room. The Civic Also gets slightly better MPGs. Still not sure about the reliability at this point but my old RSX was a tank. Very late oil changes, never replaced transmission, brake fluid, power steering fluid, coolant, and it still drives more or less fine. Again, not sure if the newer models will be as reliable but they still call them K20s and I'm definitely hoping it'll hold up that well.

I can comment on the R The R is a blast to drive. It launch like an animal. And it pull on the top end vs my mk6 GTI which was lacking a bit on the top. The new MK7 Platform was big step up compare to the MK6. Zero to 60 for the DSG model can be as quick as 4.5 sec. However the R is not a fair comparison to the civic.

Golf 1.8T compare to Civic 1.5T
GTI compare to SI
Golf R compare to Type-R

Anyhow I am still trying to figure out if I want a Hatchback Civic or Sedan since I already got an R.

 

[crownjewels]

I can comment on the R The R is a blast to drive. It launch like an animal. And it pull on the top end vs my mk6 GTI which was lacking a bit on the top. The new MK7 Platform was big step up compare to the MK6. Zero to 60 for the DSG model can be as quick as 4.5 sec. However the R is not a fair comparison to the civic.

Golf 1.8T compare to Civic 1.5T
GTI compare to SI
Golf R compare to Type-R

Anyhow I am still trying to figure out if I want a Hatchback Civic or Sedan since I already got an R.

Sedan....

 

[Newflyer3]

Isn't the GTI and R made in Germany with the regular models built in Mexico?...

 

[R&Civic]

Isn't the GTI and R made in Germany with the regular models built in Mexico?...

Negative! MK6 GTI and R was from Germant

Mk7 only Golf R is from Germany. GTI and Golf are Burrito

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