My Car Knock Count keeps going up liek crazy! Even on idle

VitViper

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when there is a new generation motor, we use past experience as a guideline to determined what is normal...

this is the exact same when k series replace the b series, we use the experience from the b series do's and don't as guideline for the k series...

things like engine knock, usually the answer is the same regardless of the brands & engine.

the answer is usually 0
The knock system in this ECU is nothing like the previous K series motors.

The "Knock Count" value on this ECU is not a true indicator of knock. You need to watch Knock Control. You can have audible knock and the "knock count" value will not even move, however Knock Control will skyrocket rapidly.
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team3d

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this is how all combust engine works...

step 1, intake stroke (pistons go downward)
step 2, compression stroke (piston go upward)
step 3, power stroke (piston go downward)
step 4, exhaust stroke (piston go upward)

engine knock happens during step 2, it's a premature explosion that happen during compression stroke (when piston is going up, compressing the air & fuel) when the explosion is meant to be in step 3, the power stroke.

when premature air/fuel mix explode when pistons is moving up ? the explosion will fight the upward movement back... and that can cause reduce performance & could cause engine failure...

the "fake knock" proper term is call phantom knock, the only way to find out if the knock is real or phantom is through engine knock tools like det can
 
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VitViper

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this is how all combust engine works...

step 1, intake stroke (pistons go downward)
step 2, compression stroke (piston go upward)
step 3, power stroke (piston go downward)
step 4, exhaust stroke (piston go upward)

engine knock happens during step 2, it's a premature explosion that happen during compression stroke (when piston is going up, compressing the air & fuel) when the explosion is meant to be in step 3, the power stroke.

when premature air/fuel mix explode when pistons is moving up ? the explosion will fight the upward movement back... and that can cause reduce performance & could cause engine failure...

the "fake knock" proper term is call phantom knock, the only way to find out if the knock is real or phantom is through engine knock tools like det can
Wow, you found that on Google all by yourself? How is this relevant to the CivicX ECU and how the knock control system functions on this ECU?

Oh yeah... it's not. Just another fine example of the marbles upstairs rattling around.

BTW, pre-ignition happens during the compression stroke. Detonation can and most definitely will happen during the power stroke (ATDC, which is when ECU's "listen" for it). If you get pre-ignition during the compression stroke there's usually nothing left to listen for because you've already heard the pop, clatter and seen the fireworks.

LoL, smh.
 

Hyudryu

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this is how all combust engine works...

step 1, intake stroke (pistons go downward)
step 2, compression stroke (piston go upward)
step 3, power stroke (piston go downward)
step 4, exhaust stroke (piston go upward)

engine knock happens during step 2, it's a premature explosion that happen during compression stroke (when piston is going up, compressing the air & fuel) when the explosion is meant to be in step 3, the power stroke.

when premature air/fuel mix explode when pistons is moving up ? the explosion will fight the upward movement back... and that can cause reduce performance & could cause engine failure...

the "fake knock" proper term is call phantom knock, the only way to find out if the knock is real or phantom is through engine knock tools like det can
The combustion is supposed to start in step 2, that way it can finish in step 3. And actually, knock happens in step 3. Pre ignition occurs in step 2.
 


VitViper

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ah yes. This is what i missed from 9th gen civic forums.

Been rather quiet ever since you stopped going there as much Vit lol.
I was trying to avoid the cancer. The cancer followed me here.
 

CW0731

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The knock system in this ECU is nothing like the previous K series motors.

The "Knock Count" value on this ECU is not a true indicator of knock. You need to watch Knock Control. You can have audible knock and the "knock count" value will not even move, however Knock Control will skyrocket rapidly.
This is what I'm also hearing from KTuner support too. Two questions:

1) What is an acceptable range for the Knock Control? What values should I start to worry?

2) If knock count really doesn't mean anything then how does the ECU know when to retard timing? From the looks of the formula (http://www.ktuner.com/KTunerHelp/ignition_timing_and_knock_control.htm), knock control is only a multiplier to determine a new ignition timing AFTER knock is detected. So how is knock detected if knock count really doesn't mean anything?

Like to get VitViper/KTuner/Hondata to comment on this.

Thanks in advance
 

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I did comment, in email, but here is a useful explanation from this thread. :)

The knock system in this ECU is nothing like the previous K series motors.

The "Knock Count" value on this ECU is not a true indicator of knock. You need to watch Knock Control. You can have audible knock and the "knock count" value will not even move, however Knock Control will skyrocket rapidly.
 

CW0731

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I did comment, in email, but here is a useful explanation from this thread. :)
If knock count is not an indicator of knock then what is?

I got it, monitor knock control but as indicated on your website, it is a multiplicative factor used to calculate how much to retard timing AFTER knock is detected. How is knock detected?
 

boosted180sx

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How is knock detected?
with a knock sensor? lol.
The car does have a knock sensor to detect knock but it probably doesn't register it and show into a value like older motors using knock count. Instead when the knock sensor detects knock, they alter the map using knock control. A high knock control means the knock sensor has detected knock and has reduced the timing.
 


CW0731

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with a knock sensor? lol.
The car does have a knock sensor to detect knock but it probably doesn't register it and show into a value like older motors using knock count. Instead when the knock sensor detects knock, they alter the map using knock control. A high knock control means the knock sensor has detected knock and has reduced the timing.
I know, this is getting silly...

I tuned (ktuner 1.2/dual tune (19.5/23)) my car yesterday and before I did a single pull in about 2 minutes, my knock count = 10. By the end of a 15 minute drive, I was at 58. Mind you, most of that time, I was simply cruising around like grandma (while the car was in normal mode). I'm being told knock count doesn't really mean anything (huh?). That instead I should just monitor knock control. But as I/you pointed out, the knock control becomes relevant after knock has been detected. So how is knock detected? who's on first?
 
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I know, this is getting silly...

I tuned (ktuner 1.2/dual tune (19.5/23)) my car yesterday and before I did a single pull in about 2 minutes, my knock count = 10. By the end of a 15 minute drive, I was at 58. Mind you, most of that time, I was simply cruising around like grandma (while the car was in normal mode). I'm being told knock count doesn't really mean anything (huh?). That instead I should just monitor knock control. But as I/you pointed out, the knock control becomes relevant after knock has been detected. So how is knock detected? who's on first?
Please ignore knock count and focus all of your efforts on knock control. :)
 

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As I quoted above, having knock does not mean you have knock count as a value increasing. If it helps, ignore that value completely.
 

davemarco

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Id say that if you're still concerned, flash back to stock and drive around while monitoring the Knock Count. Make that your baseline, then flash the KTuner basemap and drive in the same conditions while monitoring again. I don't imagine that you'll notice a drastic change.
 

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Also see where knock control settles, as I explained in email this will move based on environmental factors and fuel quality. Once you've established a baseline, that's when you'll be able to identify anything out of the normal. You're asking me to give you a normal range and that's not possible given "environmental factors and fuel quality" play a large roll in this. I'd be giving you a generalization that shouldn't be held to a standard for your individual results.

It's actually a great idea to see where you were at on the stock tune once it's settled and compare to after the tune. When you flash to stock you will start out at .9, so that needs to settle downward to get the real value.
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