Tire decisions?

TTRPGGeek · May 23, 2017

Hi folks,

So - the SI's being delivered to Indy all appear to be showing up with the summer tires, even though we have actual winter and temps below the 40-45 degree point where summer tires loose grip are frequent. Thus, I have to ask my dealer to lose those summer tires and put on all seasons.

The OEM all seasons are Goodyear Eagle Sports A/S- and if that's a simple swap that nets me $200 less price I suppose I'll take it, given that Honda must have picked those for a reason, though Tire rack reviewers aren't thrilled with their winter traction (5.8 out of 10 rating I believe)

I think, if I were paying my own $800 or so for a set to be put on that I'd opt for Michelin Pilot Sport 3+ A/S for better grip all around and much better winter grip, so if they ask "what tires ya want" I'll point them that direction.

On the 03 Accord they started with Michelin Primacy's and when those were due to be swapped I replaced those with Michelin Premiers, going from good to great. Then the 03 got totaled (with only 84,000 miles on it... sigh), and the 16 with the stock Conti's keeps telling me if I don't replace the car I need to wear these tires out quick so I can at least have a reason to lose these tires.

I might be over thinking all of this though. If I buy the SI I'm not tracking this car, I'm not modding this car, I'm a going on 50 dad looking to have more spirited fun on the on ramps and rowing my own gears before manual transmissions are extinct. Just a fun daily driver that still has four door practicality and Honda reliability. So given I'll likely rarely see the limits of the tires I reckon my question is - what would you do if you were buying all season tires?

Inertiaman70 · May 23, 2017

TTRPGGeek said:
Hi folks,

So - the SI's being delivered to Indy all appear to be showing up with the summer tires, even though we have actual winter and temps below the 40-45 degree point where summer tires loose grip are frequent. Thus, I have to ask my dealer to lose those summer tires and put on all seasons.

The OEM all seasons are Goodyear Eagle Sports A/S- and if that's a simple swap that nets me $200 less price I suppose I'll take it, given that Honda must have picked those for a reason, though Tire rack reviewers aren't thrilled with their winter traction (5.8 out of 10 rating I believe)

I think, if I were paying my own $800 or so for a set to be put on that I'd opt for Michelin Pilot Sport 3+ A/S for better grip all around and much better winter grip, so if they ask "what tires ya want" I'll point them that direction.

On the 03 Accord they started with Michelin Primacy's and when those were due to be swapped I replaced those with Michelin Premiers, going from good to great. Then the 03 got totaled (with only 84,000 miles on it... sigh), and the 16 with the stock Conti's keeps telling me if I don't replace the car I need to wear these tires out quick so I can at least have a reason to lose these tires.

I might be over thinking all of this though. If I buy the SI I'm not tracking this car, I'm not modding this car, I'm a going on 50 dad looking to have more spirited fun on the on ramps and rowing my own gears before manual transmissions are extinct. Just a fun daily driver that still has four door practicality and Honda reliability. So given I'll likely rarely see the limits of the tires I reckon my question is - what would you do if you were buying all season tires?

My 2 cents - don't do it, leave the summers on. When it gets cold, grab some steelies and some good winter tires and you're good to go. You'll be glad you did. There is plenty of research and lots of articles out there explaining why all seasons are a compromise in all conditions and underperform in the summer, wet conditions and in the cold/snow. Even if safety is your primary concern, winters and summers (in their proper respective conditions) will both stop shorter than all seasons. That's enough even for me to have become a convert. All we seem to be getting here in Minneapolis on the Si is all seasons and the tire shop is the first place I'll go, to replace them with summers.

Barring that, I'll trade ya!

Edit: For content and spelling

JTilus · May 23, 2017

I'd suggest you find the tires you actually want, and purchase them before you take delivery of the car. When the car arrives, have the tires swapped out and then you can sell the OE tires as "New take-offs." You can check how much they sell for new at Tire Rack. Just discount them a little since they were already mounted, and put them for sale on craigslist or offer up.

360glitch · May 23, 2017

JTilus said:
I'd suggest you find the tires you actually want, and purchase them before you take delivery of the car. When the car arrives, have the tires swapped out and then you can sell the OE tires as "New take-offs." You can check how much they sell for new at Tire Rack. Just discount them a little since they were already mounted, and put them for sale on craigslist or offer up.

That is exactly what I did, except uh my tires are still in the attic. Haven't tried very hard to sell them yet.

OP unless you are dealing with significant snow you may be fine with the summer tires. I definitely would not be afraid of 40-45 degree temps if that is the worst you have to worry about.

TTRPGGeek · May 23, 2017

Everything I've read about summer tires is that the cold is the key to what makes the tires loose grip - "As ambient temperatures get colder, typically in the 40-45° Fahrenheit range, summer performance tires lose a noticeable percentage of traction as their tread compound rubber properties change from a pliable elastic to inflexible plastic. The tire industry uses the term "glass transition" to describe the temperature where a summer performance tire's grip/slip performance changes dramatically. "

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=273

I do know all seasons are a compromise but - the thing we say about Indiana weather is if you don't like it, wait five minutes, it will change. And 40-45 degrees isn't the worst - 40-45 degree or colder mornings start happening in late September/early October, become typical by Thanksgiving, and can happen all the way into late April or later. Average last frost is end of April/first of May, but I can remember a couple Indy 500s where we started the morning in the stands in sweatshirts and jackets. So that's a big chunk of the year to worry about just being chilly. During the winter months we'll stay below freezing most of the time, drop to sub zero temps many times, get freezing rain, snow anywhere from dusting to many inches, and the occasional big ass blizzard that shuts us down a day or three.

So tl/dr - Summer tires aren't a practical option.

And good suggestion about buying ahead of time but I'd be the same as 360 - I'd fail to get them sold and would watch them dry out and crack from poor storage options.

Hopefully the dealer will work with me here.

360glitch · May 23, 2017

TTRPGGeek said:
Everything I've read about summer tires is that the cold is the key to what makes the tires loose grip - "As ambient temperatures get colder, typically in the 40-45° Fahrenheit range, summer performance tires lose a noticeable percentage of traction as their tread compound rubber properties change from a pliable elastic to inflexible plastic. The tire industry uses the term "glass transition" to describe the temperature where a summer performance tire's grip/slip performance changes dramatically. "

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=273

I do know all seasons are a compromise but - the thing we say about Indiana weather is if you don't like it, wait five minutes, it will change. And 40-45 degrees isn't the worst - 40-45 degree or colder mornings start happening in late September/early October, become typical by Thanksgiving, and can happen all the way into late April or later. Average last frost is end of April/first of May, but I can remember a couple Indy 500s where we started the morning in the stands in sweatshirts and jackets. So that's a big chunk of the year to worry about just being chilly. During the winter months we'll stay below freezing most of the time, drop to sub zero temps many times, get freezing rain, snow anywhere from dusting to many inches, and the occasional big ass blizzard that shuts us down a day or three.

So tl/dr - Summer tires aren't a practical option.

And good suggestion about buying ahead of time but I'd be the same as 360 - I'd fail to get them sold and would watch them dry out and crack from poor storage options.

Hopefully the dealer will work with me here.

Eh, my failure to sell them is my own fault. All I've done is post them on here, and truth be told not many 10th gen Civic owners are having to replace worn out tires yet. Just don't want to scare you aware from the idea. Recently I found the best prices on new tires at SimpleTire.com. I've also had good luck with TireBuyer.com.

zroger73 · May 23, 2017

TTRPGGeek said:
The OEM all seasons are Goodyear Eagle Sports A/S- and if that's a simple swap that nets me $200 less price I suppose I'll take it

If you want the factory all-season tires on an Si that left the factory with Summer tires, expect to pay full price for the all-season tires.

TTRPGGeek · May 23, 2017

zroger73 said:
If you want the factory all-season tires on an Si that left the factory with Summer tires, expect to pay full price for the all-season tires.

*sigh* Yeah you're probably right.

Alright then Mr. Dealer - drop the destination charge, sell me some Pilot Sports, wrap it all into the package and we'll call it a day.

ne0guri · May 23, 2017

TTRPGGeek said:
Everything I've read about summer tires is that the cold is the key to what makes the tires loose grip - "As ambient temperatures get colder, typically in the 40-45° Fahrenheit range, summer performance tires lose a noticeable percentage of traction as their tread compound rubber properties change from a pliable elastic to inflexible plastic. The tire industry uses the term "glass transition" to describe the temperature where a summer performance tire's grip/slip performance changes dramatically. "

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=273

I do know all seasons are a compromise but - the thing we say about Indiana weather is if you don't like it, wait five minutes, it will change. And 40-45 degrees isn't the worst - 40-45 degree or colder mornings start happening in late September/early October, become typical by Thanksgiving, and can happen all the way into late April or later. Average last frost is end of April/first of May, but I can remember a couple Indy 500s where we started the morning in the stands in sweatshirts and jackets. So that's a big chunk of the year to worry about just being chilly. During the winter months we'll stay below freezing most of the time, drop to sub zero temps many times, get freezing rain, snow anywhere from dusting to many inches, and the occasional big ass blizzard that shuts us down a day or three.

So tl/dr - Summer tires aren't a practical option.

And good suggestion about buying ahead of time but I'd be the same as 360 - I'd fail to get them sold and would watch them dry out and crack from poor storage options.

Hopefully the dealer will work with me here.

This is my biggest worry too... Vegas is obviously known for being super hot during the summer, which would be perfect for the summer tires. Vegas in the winter is actually pretty damn cold (averages high 30s to the mid 40s during winter). Luckily there is no snow, but still at those temperatures do I need to do anything special to get them warmed up without putting cracks?

Just having to think about a scenario like that is making me lean towards getting the all-season tires. But I don't really know too much about cars so if there is anyone out there to enlighten me, it would be appreciated.

VarmintCong · May 25, 2017

TTRPGGeek said:
Hi folks,

So - the SI's being delivered to Indy all appear to be showing up with the summer tires, even though we have actual winter and temps below the 40-45 degree point where summer tires loose grip are frequent. Thus, I have to ask my dealer to lose those summer tires and put on all seasons.

The OEM all seasons are Goodyear Eagle Sports A/S- and if that's a simple swap that nets me $200 less price I suppose I'll take it, given that Honda must have picked those for a reason, though Tire rack reviewers aren't thrilled with their winter traction (5.8 out of 10 rating I believe)

I think, if I were paying my own $800 or so for a set to be put on that I'd opt for Michelin Pilot Sport 3+ A/S for better grip all around and much better winter grip, so if they ask "what tires ya want" I'll point them that direction.

On the 03 Accord they started with Michelin Primacy's and when those were due to be swapped I replaced those with Michelin Premiers, going from good to great. Then the 03 got totaled (with only 84,000 miles on it... sigh), and the 16 with the stock Conti's keeps telling me if I don't replace the car I need to wear these tires out quick so I can at least have a reason to lose these tires.

I might be over thinking all of this though. If I buy the SI I'm not tracking this car, I'm not modding this car, I'm a going on 50 dad looking to have more spirited fun on the on ramps and rowing my own gears before manual transmissions are extinct. Just a fun daily driver that still has four door practicality and Honda reliability. So given I'll likely rarely see the limits of the tires I reckon my question is - what would you do if you were buying all season tires?

Summers don't lose grip at 40F, I've driven on summers below 30F many times. Yeah, you can't drive like a maniac but they're fine for normal driving. You just want to avoid any snow.

Keep the summers and buy a winter set. If you get real snow, and more importantly, salt and potholes, get small diameter winter wheels you won't have to worry about bending, and get real snow tires. Even the Pilot Spot 3+ A/S is going to be pretty mediocre in snow, but I don't know how wintery Indianapolis is.

I'm using the Pilot Sports A/Ss for my summer tires - cause we sometimes get surprise early snow around here.

totopo · May 25, 2017

ne0guri said:
This is my biggest worry too... Vegas is obviously known for being super hot during the summer, which would be perfect for the summer tires. Vegas in the winter is actually pretty damn cold (averages high 30s to the mid 40s during winter). Luckily there is no snow, but still at those temperatures do I need to do anything special to get them warmed up without putting cracks?

Just having to think about a scenario like that is making me lean towards getting the all-season tires. But I don't really know too much about cars so if there is anyone out there to enlighten me, it would be appreciated.

summer tires are perfect for vegas, you can even go for EP tires since there's never any rain. Just in the evenings or mornings in the winter be careful with your tires for the first few minutes.

Design · May 25, 2017

I will say this. I run Michelin A/S-3's on a 270 WHP MS3 and they outperform half the UHP summer tire options out there - even when half worn. I had to purchase them for my occasional trips to the mountains. So if you decide to go the A/S route, there are some decent options that will mimic 90-95% percent of a summer tire's behavior (and get an extra 15-20K out of the tread life).

More here:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+A/S+3++(W-+or+Y-Speed+Rated)

TTRPGGeek · May 25, 2017

Design said:
I will say this. I run Michelin A/S-3's on a 270 WHP MS3 and they outperform half the UHP summer tire options out there - even when half worn. I had to purchase them for my occasional trips to the mountains. So if you decide to go the A/S route, there are some decent options that will mimic 90-95% percent of a summer tire's behavior (and get an extra 15-20K out of the tread life).

More here:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+A/S+3++(W-+or+Y-Speed+Rated)

Yeah if I'm buying my own after the fact or getting the dealer to swap for my choice those are my choice.

ne0guri · May 28, 2017

totopo said:
summer tires are perfect for vegas, you can even go for EP tires since there's never any rain. Just in the evenings or mornings in the winter be careful with your tires for the first few minutes.

While it's true that it doesn't rain very much here, when it does, it rains HARD like flood status.

I will definitely look into those Michelin UHP All Seasons once I wear my stock tires down in the future

pukemon · May 28, 2017

TTRG and neoguri, unless you need to worry about snow or ice I think you're spot on with the tire choice of Michelin pilot sport A/S 3's. Very good all around tire. Pilot super sports start losing some traction around the <45° degree mark, don't get as high tread wear rating and possibly hydroplane easier with the tread design. I'm stuck with pirelli's. And not even good pirelli's. I am checking tire price prices every day for p/s as3's. Haven't been able to enjoy my GTI proper due to not enough traction. I vote go ahead and buy 'em and recoup as much as you can selling them.

Tire decisions?

TTRPGGeek

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Inertiaman70

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JTilus

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360glitch

TTRPGGeek

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360glitch

zroger73

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TTRPGGeek

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ne0guri

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VarmintCong

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totopo

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Design

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TTRPGGeek

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ne0guri

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pukemon

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